To think this black eye was not an accident? Warning pic of black eye

[LittleLostCookie]

Sorry I do have this post in SN chat (originally wasn’t keen on AIBU) but will get Mumsnet to delete as I’m desperately awaiting a reply to get some thoughts/opinions on this.

DS is 9 and has asd and is non verbal. He has been going to his dad for about 1/3 of the school holidays and ex h has a new partner who has 2 teenage boys. DS came home yesterday morning with a pretty sore eye and I instantly asked ex h what had happened and he very much brushed it off (he never texted me to tell me about any sort of injury or incident) saying well he was playing with the older boys wasn’t he. DS never “plays” with other children, especially older ones. He gets on best with babies at a push. I asked ex H when have we ever seen him play with other kids and he claims how he’s taken to them and I just can’t believe that I know my son and just know he isn’t going to be playing doesn’t matter how much he likes them and I asked what they were playing and he said oh it was with a ball and he got hit and I asked if he saw it and he said no and I’m also not believing this because ds always has his ball and will have a meltdown if someone is taking it/playing with it. There’s no way he has willingly played ball with some teenage boys and I can’t believe ex H thinks I’m that stupid.

He’s come at me with the “I’m his dad and he was in my care and I’m telling you that’s what happened” and I just don’t believe it. He’s my only child and I must admit, I don’t know too much about kids his age but is this even an injury that happens from some harmless playing IF that even happened, which I don’t believe for one second did…

I’m really angry but don’t know what I can do. Sorry for the drawn on picture didn’t want to have a zoom in and make it super blurry. So AIBU to think this definitely didn’t happen in the way ex H claims?

Nonsense, I was clobbered by a rounders ball and it was worse than the OPs picture.

In my first post I said my DH had an eye injury that looked like the pic and it was an accidental sports injury but yy it's a fast moving thread so difficult to keep track.

I would be angry that he didn’t think necessary to explain about the injury at handover but I wouldn’t worry too much unless he is coming back from contact upset or with other injuries.

I know you say that he would never hand his ball to other people or play with other children but I know a couple with a child of the same age who is also non verbal and they were really shocked when their child suddenly decided to handover his iPad to my son in front of us, which apparently was something he wouldn’t do even for his own parents.

Boys sometimes look up to older boys so who knows, it may be that he is finding the teens interesting enough to open up a bit. so I wouldn’t make a fuss unless he shows that time at his dad is upsetting.

This was my DS eye after a very definitely accidental bang in the face.
They can look absolutely awful and I don't think there is any way to tell just from a bruise.

Eyes are funny things.

My 3yo ran straight into a bookcase. Got an egg like a goose immediately on his forehead. (Cue me wailing, and sending DH straight to A&E, who essentially said, that's what a bumped head looks like, go home lol.)

About two days later, the egg had gone, but my god his eye was black all round it. Twice as bad as your pic. And he hadn't even hit his eye.

Maybe he got a little whack with a ball and his eye had reacted really badly. Entirely possible. Also possible one of them elbowed him in the face and his eye has actually reacted well.

I guess you just don't know. But it doesn't have to be a big injury for an eye to look terrible.

That's not quite true. The location of a bruise can be an indication of non accidental injury (abdomen, inner thighs, neck etc) but nobody can look at that bruise and ascertain the cause

Yes it can but also the formation of the bruise. The location of the cruise does not necessarily mean that it’s definitely abuse as children can also get hurt in ‘soft’ areas - as a lot of other posters on here who have had black eyes from accidents will be able to tell you that they have had black eyes from accidents. All I was doing is responding to a post where that poster was wondering how they can determine if it’s an accident or not.

This is what we would call unexplained bruising and would need some sort of safeguarding referral. The explanation provided by your ex would raise some concerns quite frankly. I think the advice to see the GP or going to a walk in centre is the right course of action.

Also, due to my nature of work (not in safeguarding per se) but I work in a medical environment where I am aware that children have had to be examined due to suspicious bruising and injuries and it is a lengthy process but a professional can generally tell if it is accidental or non accidental.

I’m not sure why but people who work in this sort of field would definitely be able to determine a likely cause of injury or at least of it was accidental or not

No they wouldn’t. A paediatrician trained in forensic medical examination could only say the bruise was or wasn’t consistent with the supposed cause, or say that the bruise was in a location not associated with accidental injury or that the injury was consistent with being grabbed/pulled etc. They can’t look at a bruise and definitively say it was caused by X.

As I said, the location can be an indication. There is nothing in the formation of that bruise that can be used to explain its origin. Obviously, finger prints, bites etc are different but unfortunately, there is no way of looking at OPs son and saying what caused it

I mean, he could have been hit by a ball but it seems odd that he was 'playing' as you said that's unlikely for him.
I don't know what you can do though. Your son can't tell you and your ex is adamant that his version is correct.
I'd definitely be logging it somehow though

I appreciate that but my work experience (safeguarding and hcp) tells me that the OPs ex has given a plausible explanation for the injury and unfortunately, it's impossible to prove or disprove by medical examination

Also, due to my nature of work (not in safeguarding per se) but I work in a medical environment where I am aware that children have had to be examined due to suspicious bruising and injuries and it is a lengthy process but a professional can generally tell if it is accidental or non accidental.

Due to the nature of my job I’ve read more forensic medical reports than I care to think about. The report will say the injury is consistent with the explanation given (child fell, was hit with a ball etc), or appears to be non-accidental in nature. They won’t say it was caused by X because they simply don’t know, it’s pretty rare for an injury to have a cause so obvious it can be determined conclusively purely on examining the bruise.

Are you a paediatrician or hold a similar qualification? Because I am pretty sure that when an injury has been caused to a child and social services get involved, they often get the parent to bring the child along to the hospital for checking over by a professional. The professional can usually then say whether or not they believe an injury was accidental or not. If that professional then believes it is a non accidental injury then a lengthy investigation is done and can even end up in court with such professionals having to give evidence of their findings and why they believe it is non accidental. This is usually done from the location/ formation of the injury. They don’t just say “sorry there is no way of knowing how they got the injury” and then send the child home again if they are not satisfied if it was an accident, An investigation has to be done if it is believed the injury is non accidental.

Please don’t take up accident and emergency time with this. It’s neither.

If it needs to be logged for some purpose then minor injuries or the GP is fine. Similarly if there are concerns that it needs checking.

My son got hit with a ball to the face and was advised to go the minor injures unit (who sent us to a&e as they were closing) to check no damage had been done to the eye. His was nothing like this though, his was very minor compared to this. Definitely get it looked at.

It does look sore but I don’t think you can conclusively attribute that to a punch. Eye sockets bruise very easily from a multitude of things. But I would make a note of it and request that you’re told of injuries like that when they happen going forward. It’s so so hard when a child isn’t able to communicate effectively.

I do hold a relevant qualification. Some injury types are very often neglectful or non-accidental (hence injuries to non mobile baby protocols and policies - non mobile babies rarely hurt themselves) and sometimes the explanation given is so implausible or inconsistent with the injuries, its highly likely that an injury was caused intentionally. When a plausible explanation is given and the injury is consistent with the explanation, there's no way a medical examination can determine whether its accidental or not. There's a whole other set of concerns when carers or parents fail to respond to an injury - e.g baby presents at GP with parents saying they had fallen off a bed, being advised to attend A&E and then failing to do so. Sorry, OP, I don't want to derail the thread and hope your son is ok

@TropicalTrama i would identify suspected concussion for a non-verbal child in the same way that I would identify other non-visible symptoms that could present at any time for any illness. Child is holding head, stomach, is subdued, is more sleepy than usual, is crying, upset or appears in pain. If I took my non-verbal son to A & E for all his knocks and bumps (including several egg shaped bumps on his head) growing up we might as well of moved in. I suspect with OP’s DS being nine she would be confident in getting a read on him. Of course, if in doubt or concerned she might miss the symptoms she absolutely should go. I just wouldn’t go as a matter of course.

Sorry for such a delay, been a busy day.

it is reassuring to see so many people have had similar from regular accidents I’m just worried for DS and the whole thing is very odd to me.

I’ve never been allowed to meet his new partner/the children because it “doesn’t matter if I like them or not” and I’ve said that it’s true but obviously I care who my son is around especially as he is very vulnerable and he said as his dad he is capable of assessing what he sees fit.

I’m not so sure as clearly he isn’t keeping an eye on him and DS should absolutely be being supervised and I am simply not sure how the scenario even happen. I get it’s an easy injury from a ball but I don’t get HOW it’s happened. DS goes to his dads with 3 balls and he decides which he prefers for the day (DH said it was one of the balls I sent with him when I originally pushed about what it was that had hit him) and one is a tennis type ball but I don’t get why the older boys would have even been playing with DS’s stuff. DS definitely wouldn’t have had that and I get people mean well when they say he could have been playing with the older boys. There’s no way he was “playing” to the degree that would have resulted in a ball to the face. What sort of game would have had to have been taking place? The most simplest being catch maybe? DS LOVES his balls but he only bounces them. It’s just odd to me especially as he never told me and seems so unbothered by what happened.

ex h has made plenty of comments in the past about how “DS gets in the way” “DS annoys them” I’ve had to have DS on days ex h should have had him just so they could do things with the older boys without DS “getting in the way”: These other boys are clearly what ex h really wanted when he had a child. He’s always been unhappy with us having a child with additional needs and it’s a huge reason our marriage broke down.

I don’t know the older kids so I can’t comment on how they are but based on them finding him annoying and being in the way, it’s hardly sounding like they’re full of compassion.

I’m just so sad for my boy and thank you, I will definitely take him to the GP , will call in the morning

And there we have it - where a plausible explanation is given and is consistent with the injury. There is obviously some deciding factor based on the injury as to whether or not the explanation is plausible- hence why such lengthy investigations are carried out. However, the op does not feel this is a plausible explanation and as I have been saying all along, the child really should be checked out.

I’m a mum to 23 year old who has severe learning difficulties and is non verbal.

I would be very concerned as to why your ex never even mentioned it, I mean why on earth not?

As parents to children and young adults that are specifically non verbal we need as much information about accidents that have happened to be able to make a decision as to whether they need medical treatment, as they are non verbal all communication is very very limited.

I probably would take him and get him checked over, and for it to be logged on his medical records, I suspect they wouldn’t think to highly of your ex not even letting you know.

Unfortunately you can’t prove whether it was an accident or not, but all you can do is be extra vigilant, do get him checked and maybe let the school know as I suspect it will still be noticeable when school resumes.

I know with my ds the initial act of hurting himself doesn’t bother him, but it’s later on, a sort of a delayed reaction where he then processes what happened which would bring on some tears.

I hope it doesn’t bother him too much and big hugs to him

But it is a plausible explanation, whether the op believes it or not.

You have to go with your gut - this seems fishy, and from what you’ve just said about your ex’s attitude to your son (heartbreaking), you have reason to suspect he’s not being treated the way he deserves to be treated.

Also, calling BS on him saying ‘you don’t need to meet them’ - if they’re spending significant amounts of time with your vulnerable son, you absolutely do need to meet them!

Sorry you (and your son) are dealing with this. I agree with everyone else who said you need to get this officially documented in case something happens again.