To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

[Unexpectedlysinglemum]

The tories have totally messed up the country recently I think that people who did or didn't vote for them can see they are doing an awful job and they have no reasonable expectation of winning next general election..... EXCEPT now the Tory press has created this total obsession about

1. Sex education and
2. Gender and trans issues.

They are painting them selves as the only party that will save us from the wokes who want to identify as a dog or teach 12 year olds how to have anal sex... this is what the Tory tabloids are claiming is happening in schools.

What does everyone think?

hermaphrodite? Intersex? Please don’t use those terms. People with DSD (differences or disorders of sexual development) have repeatedly asked not to be dragged into this. A medical condition that affects sexual development is nothing whatsoever like being transgender

also people with DSD are still either male or female. There is no mysterious third sex

But that's Transphobic.

It's the other way around. The issue has been hyped by liberals to distract from the fact that they are going to do nothing to improve ordinary people's lives. They need the culture war more than the Tories do.

The Tory media says things like

'You can't say vagina any more you have to say bonus hole that's what the woke left want!!!' Similar to 'baa baa black sheep is banned because it's racist!'

And you see here on mums net that's lapped up and believed and it totally erases any discussion of real racism or transphobia.

The issues you describe - I think they're evey important but to me not more important than climate change or education or health funding - but no one is taking about those (which the tories are failing at) as the gender stuff is so constantly in the headlines scaring parents into thinking that only the tories can save their child from identifying as a cat

@Unexpectedlysinglemum it's not a random issue to vote over if you're affected by it. I am in two ways, firstly because I have child drawn into this bullshit and secondly because I am a woman who is losing my rights.

blah

It's not trans people we want to keep out of female only spaces. It's all men.

We don't want gay men in our female only sports. We don't want disabled men in our female only prisons. We don't want black men in our female only changing areas. We don't want Muslim men in our female only hospital wards. These men are male. No matter what their protected characteristics have, we don't want any men in our female only spaces. No matter how lovely these males are, women and children are entitled to dignity, respect as well as the safety afforded us by safeguarding measures.

It's not transphobic or homophobic or racist or discriminatory to insist that women be allowed to keep their single sex, female only spaces which they are entitled to in law.

Transwomen are biologically male. This is what it boils down to and it's not transphobic to say that. They need to campaign for their own spaces just like women campaigned for theirs and people with disabilities campaigned for accessible services. It's not ok to just try and take away from another group with a protected characteristic and call anyone who objects a bigot.

This needs saying out loud so that people understand how important it.

The Torys are running with it because they know it makes sense. Any party trying to defend the erosion of womens rights and the dismantling of safeguarding is not going to come out of a campaign looking good.

It's hard to defend male rapists in womens prisons or a person convicted of child sex abuse being allowed to change their name and self identify into places where women and children are vulnerable. It's not ok. Everyone knows it's not ok. It's indefensible.

I don’t think you understand intersex conditions. There aren’t people going round with two sets of sexual organs (the ‘hermaphrodite’ myth).

You are welcome to avoid talking about the reality of biology if you prefer, but Starmer didn’t just say he avoids it, he said it shouldn’t be said, which is a pretty shocking statement- for a potential prime minister to opine on our right to state the truth is a serious thing in a country which hitherto has rated free speech highly.

@Winnading interesting - my opinion (as you asked) is that you should have been able to ask for a different nurse of same sex. I personally don't mind the sex of a doctor so hasn't thought about that one.

The gender stuff is so constantly in the headlines scaring parents into thinking that only the tories can save their child from identifying as a cat @Unexpectedlysinglemum you show an astonishing lack of compassion for the parents and vulnerable young people who are actually affected by this.

I agree that nhs should record biology and then also social identity to help give personalized care

This ^^

If the leaders of the Greens. Lib Dems, SNP and Labour were all clear that only adult human females are ever women and rights can only ever be based on facts not feelings the matter would long since have gone away.

The issues you describe - I think they're evey important but to me not more important than climate change or education or health funding - but no one is taking about those (which the tories are failing at) as the gender stuff is so constantly in the headlines scaring parents into thinking that only the tories can save their child from identifying as a cat

Well they may have been late to the party but the Conservatives did undertake the Cass review which resulted in the Tavistock Clinic being closed because it was failing young people. Sadly it was too late for those who have already undergone irreversible treatment that has no scientific basis to support it. Young people who have been sterilised and will suffer lifelong health problems as a result of experimental treatment but yes we're all just concerned about children identifying as cats.

As someone else said if you are not worried about this then you haven't been paying attention and you clearly have not been paying attention as demonstrated by the multiple examples of your ignorance on this thread.

They didn't create it but it's an easy win when the other parties won't say that women are adult human females. It's absolutely gobsmacking that this is even up for debate.

It's also shocking that people aren't bothered by an issue unless it affects them directly. I would have thought that most intelligent adults can be concerned about issues that they don't experience in real life.

Trans people are the people being manipulated here. There were trans people going about their lives peacefully until activists declared war on women and turned trans issues into a money making mission that also discriminates against gay people.

There are good reasons why certain spaces are segregated by sex. We should not bulldoze over those spaces just because we might not need them right now in our lives and stand up for people who need support. It could be you in prison or needing a shelter. By then it's too late to demand that the service is single sex.

Thank you for educating about the language here - apologies for offense caused with outdated terms

This

Interesting tell us more

If intimidation and misrepresentation of the law can be used in other areas like the way Stonewall has attempted this, often to silence criticism, what do you think the implications are?

It's not going to stop at this issue.

It therefore is about every issue. Transparency and accountability are at the heart of good governance and democracy.

Then there's the women's rights and dignity issues

Then there is a the medical ethics and research issues, which particularly affect vulnerable groups - young people generally, gay and lesbians, autistic people and those with underlying mental health issues.

Then there's the implications for religious groups.

Then there's the implications for safety.

Then there's the implications of no listening to the importance of sex for the benefit of any one trans themselves. If they insist they are female when they are male there are risks to their health. And for females who insist they are male. Facilitating a delusion on this and not allowing anyone to ask the right questions for fear of offending is dangerous.

Then there's the implications of word salad making it harder for those with learning issues or lack of English to understand important health messages.

Then there's the social contagion issue amongst young girls - and the fact that those who are transitioning seem to have particularly high rates of having been abused in the past - thus hiding other important issues.

Then theres the lack of trust and fear which will lead to women self excluding from various things in daily life for various reasons.

Then there's the implications for women's sport. Keeping in mind that sometimes this can involve financial opportunities for women.

Then there's the political representation of women and their issues. If you think that a male will prioritise maternity issues and explain the physical effect of birth trauma on them, you need your head read. These type of issues will fall further down the agenda than they already are.

Then there's the impact on lesbians. Homosexuality is about sex. It is not homogenderism. If someone with a penis is defined as a lesbian this destroys the protects of lesbians in law. It makes it harder for them to be out in public without harassment or abuse. Males trying to get into the knickers of lesbians is an abusive homophobic action. Lesbians should be able to exclude them from dating without fear.

NONE of this is Transphobic. These are the unintended byproduct of ill thought out ideas by idiot politicians who have supported the deliberate attempts of Stonewall to support Men's Rights Activism at the expense of others.

ALL political parties need to address these issues and find solutions to these issues. Not just tell women to shut up and put up.

I’ve seen Tories blamed for a lot but this is a new one.

🙄

The Tories are responsible for the Trans shitshow in the UK, now they're pretending it has nothing to do with them.

They put male rapists in women's prisons.
Johnson and Sunak have flip flopped over what a woman is.
They've been putting TWAW believers at the head of Education for years. Our current Sec of State for Education can't define the word "girl".
The only trans MP is a Tory MP.

It's the Tory party's fault. Pay no attention to their lies now.

My mentally ill young relative who has ruined their health by transitioning was not encouraged to do so by tories. I dont know about their trans partner whose health is even worse (unable to work full time) but strongly suspect they fell into the clutches of Mermaids and the Tavistock too. They are same sex and could have lived happily - and healthily - together as gay young people.

You clearly have not seen the homophobia demonstrated in the case brought by Mermaids against the LGB alliance. You happily ignore the CASS report saying that many young people are being inappropriately encouraged to transition.

This is "transing away the gay" - homophobia and mysogyny - denying women's safety and privacy.

I have zero patience with those who support the harming of children. The tories are exploiting the legitmate concerns of parents and relatives while other parties still try to pretend this is not happening.

It was Teresa May who planned to introduce self ID for trans people, it is only recently that the Tories have caught up with public opinion on women’s rights.

Yes the Tories are second rate and need replacing but I can’t see Kier Starmer solving all our problems either frankly.

All the social movements of the 70’s have been eroded. Feminism got watered down by obsessing about sex work and then supporting intersectional Left wing causes, now allowing men into women’s spaces and wanting to erase the word women.

Same with Labour- it’s become the natural choice for the upper class bourgeois now, they don’t care about free speech they care about are capitalist banks and support social justice causes on an international level but are not interested in the working classes, they are an afterthought.

Sorry to have come across that way and really sorry for what your child is going through I understand this is an issue that really impacts you and your family and especially autistic children are very vulnerable here.

I guess my op and question was going on dinner party chat recently with parents of children who aren't particularly at risk, oans aren't experiencing this, who are using phrases like 'identify as a cat' to make fun of the left wing and woke and I guess it seems like this is maybe a way of keeping the status quo and right wing in power - hence me asking for opinions about whether this is going on.

I haven't made up my mind at all that's why I opened up the floor here too hear other views.

Yup - I'm definitely ignorant about this and haven't made up my mind- that's why I'm asking for everyone's views!

It's also shocking that people aren't bothered by an issue unless it affects them directly. I would have thought that most intelligent adults can be concerned about issues that they don't experience in real life.

People generally seem to be able to be supportive of asylum seekers and migrants even though they are likely to ever be in that situation. Why is it so hard to understand what it's like for a woman having to share a cell with a man? All the things discussed are not made up OP. There is so much that you probably don't know because you haven't been interested enough to find out why this is such an important issue for women.