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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

After school won’t let my teenage daughter pick up my son in an emergency

323 replies

Fuknstuck · 29/08/2023 16:33

I’m sick, running a fever, I’m dizzy and fluid is streaming out both ends. I am also disabled so this has a knock on effect on my mobility. It just came on 2 hours ago, there’s no way I can leave the toilet let alone drive one street safely.

I called after school care to request my 14 almost 15 year old daughter to pick up my 6 year old son and bring him home, one street away and they’re refusing because she’s a minor. I explained there is nobody able to help me - neighbours all at work, only one who isn’t is 93 and dying of cancer, my parents live 300 miles away and my partner is working in intensive care and can’t just up and leave. I dont have friends who use the after care.

They are refusing to allow my daughter to pick him up. They know her, they know she’s mature and responsible but won’t let her bring him the one street from school to our home. I’ve asked what I’m supposed to do. It’s the first time I’ve ever asked them to do this and they know it’s an emergency and they’re refusing. I’ve asked how we resolve this as they can’t keep him overnight and I literally cannot get to the school.

AIBU to expect in an emergency situation where the parent trusts the teenage child and accepts all liability, that they should allow her to pick him up?

OP posts:
Itsnotrightbutitsok · 29/08/2023 17:21

I don’t think your DH should have to leave work and travel home when you are literally 2mins away.

It would be very unfair to him and his patients if they say that’s the only option.

DorasAuntie · 29/08/2023 17:21

Blanca87 · 29/08/2023 17:17

A 16 year old can get married, join the army and vote in referendums in some parts of Britain.

They are not legally adults.
They need parental permission to marry.
The Army is seen as an 'apprenticeship' so why mention that?
Voting- isn't that just Scotland? (More votes for independence?!)

Hercisback · 29/08/2023 17:22

Schools release siblings to under 16yos. This is ridiculous OP and needs challenging on every level.

I'd leave her there and see what they do. Tenner says they let him take her home. Police will tell them to do one.

Itsnotrightbutitsok · 29/08/2023 17:23

Fuknstuck · 29/08/2023 17:20

Apparently my suggesting this could be indirect discrimination offended him. He did not see any of this as a reasonable adjustment because of their blanket policy for everyone.

My time in law school may yet come in handy but it means no after school club for my son if I decide to get arsey. I’m really stuck.

Show quote history

Legally they’re not doing anything wrong though.

That’s the trouble, that they won’t bend the rules slightly to help you out.

caban · 29/08/2023 17:25

Takoneko · 29/08/2023 17:18

That’s a perfectly reasonable stance to take in normal circumstances but in an emergency are you really saying that you’d make a police/social services referral rather than hand a child over to the teenage sibling sent to collect? You can’t force an adult to come and you have no legal right to detain a child unless you felt it was a serious issue of safety. I.e. You felt the parents decision to authorise a teenager was so unsafe that you had no option but to refuse for the child’s safety and contact social care. What other option would you have if a parent said no adult could come?

Show quote history

For me, either it's safe to release an under 8 to an under 16 or it isn't. I don't think it is, so the circumstances don't really matter.
If you bend a policy to suit, what's the point in having a policy to start with? And Ofsted do check that providers follow their own safeguarding policies.
My parents all agree to this when they sign up with me.

If a parent couldn't or wouldn't send an adult to collect I would either keep the child until they could (within the same day) or take the child home myself when possible and charge the parent accordingly.

TripleDaisySummer · 29/08/2023 17:25

Voting- isn't that just Scotland? (More votes for independence?!)

16 year old can vote in some welsh elections as well - but I think over 16 is usually because in area I've lived there is odd 16 year old parent.

I have also encountered such inflexibility with lack of family to sweep in in one area we lived - we were the anomaly having no local family to step in and if they got stubborn and insisted pretty much everyone else found an adult relation to step in.

Takoneko · 29/08/2023 17:29

They are doing something wrong legally. Schools can’t detain children and refuse to release them. This is regularly drummed into us as safeguarding leads. We cannot override parental responsibility. Not even social services can do that, it requires a police protection order.

Honestly, I’d call the police. Tell the club you are doing it and if they won’t budge then tell the police that you are unwell and your child is being held at school and they are refusing to hand him over to an authorised person when they have no legal authority to detain him and you are concerned for his welfare. Then send DD round to wait outside.

Original poster
Fuknstuck · 29/08/2023 17:30

What bothers me is I could stop a stranger passing my house and ask them and they’d be able to do it and my son wouldn’t know who it was there to get them. They’d be ok with that as long as I gave them the password.

i appreciate safeguarding policies exist for a reason but there has to be a degree of flexibility for emergencies.

OP posts:
UpaladderwatchingTV · 29/08/2023 17:30

Takoneko · 29/08/2023 17:29

They are doing something wrong legally. Schools can’t detain children and refuse to release them. This is regularly drummed into us as safeguarding leads. We cannot override parental responsibility. Not even social services can do that, it requires a police protection order.

Honestly, I’d call the police. Tell the club you are doing it and if they won’t budge then tell the police that you are unwell and your child is being held at school and they are refusing to hand him over to an authorised person when they have no legal authority to detain him and you are concerned for his welfare. Then send DD round to wait outside.

I know that your DH has now had to leave work to sort this out OP, but I really would have done this!! There's no way I'd be using this dreadful setup in the future either. Complete MADNESS!!

caban · 29/08/2023 17:33

Takoneko · 29/08/2023 17:29

They are doing something wrong legally. Schools can’t detain children and refuse to release them. This is regularly drummed into us as safeguarding leads. We cannot override parental responsibility. Not even social services can do that, it requires a police protection order.

Honestly, I’d call the police. Tell the club you are doing it and if they won’t budge then tell the police that you are unwell and your child is being held at school and they are refusing to hand him over to an authorised person when they have no legal authority to detain him and you are concerned for his welfare. Then send DD round to wait outside.

Only do this if you won't need the club for childcare in the future!

Flakey99 · 29/08/2023 17:35

Drummend01 · 29/08/2023 16:43

It doesn’t work like that, it’s a legally binding policy that’s dictated to the school to protect the children. It does sound ridiculous but they can’t make exceptions.

OP do you have the contact details of any of the other parents could drop him home?

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FFS! You’re talking utter rubbish as you clearly have no understanding of the differences between Law, Regulations and Guidance.

OP, you need to be much firmer with them and tell them that if they don’t release your child to your daughter you will call the police and report them for kidnap and unlawful imprisonment.

Clefable · 29/08/2023 17:36

Badly funded settings that are probably run by people who are underpaid etc often don't really have room for nuance in their interpretation of stuff (or are just too scared of getting something wrong to risk using common sense). Certainly around here, after school clubs are a dying breed struggling to afloat. Our local one is about to shut due to funding issues and lack of staff.

Not ideal your partner having to leave work but in fairness it's what many of us have to do when there is a sudden illness in the house. I'd have to have my husband come home from work if I was genuinely unable to get off the toilet as I wouldn't be able to look after my two young DC safely.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 29/08/2023 17:40

This is the problem with tick box safeguarding.

When my son was about 11 he did a holiday scheme at the local leisure centre. There was a password system, I had to give a password for him to be released to me.

He was 11, not 5. I think he was capable of knowing how his mother was and I was the listed adult for pick-up.

Common sense doesn't come into it. I wonder what they actually think is going to happen if a 15 year old takes her 6 year old sibling home?

LlynTegid · 29/08/2023 17:41

I think you do need to follow up on the response to your comment about indirect discrimination. The refusal seems to be to consider any reasonable adjustment not the specific one you proposed.

Takoneko · 29/08/2023 17:41

caban · 29/08/2023 17:25

For me, either it's safe to release an under 8 to an under 16 or it isn't. I don't think it is, so the circumstances don't really matter.
If you bend a policy to suit, what's the point in having a policy to start with? And Ofsted do check that providers follow their own safeguarding policies.
My parents all agree to this when they sign up with me.

If a parent couldn't or wouldn't send an adult to collect I would either keep the child until they could (within the same day) or take the child home myself when possible and charge the parent accordingly.

Show quote history

Respectfully, you don’t have the legal right to do any of those things.

The only people who can override parental responsibility in this way are police (for a limited period of up to 72 hours) or the courts.

You can’t just keep a child without their parent’s consent… or transport them home without consent for that matter.

If you feel strongly that the parent is authorising something that isn’t safe then it would need to be a child protection referral to get the authority to detain.

I am shocked that people think they have the right to detain children in this way when even social services can’t do that.

ihadamarveloustime · 29/08/2023 17:46

GuardiansPlayList · 29/08/2023 16:36

The school’s hands may be tied. They will have legal safeguarding rules set by LA.

Bullshit. I release children in my class to older siblings (13, 14, 15 years old, etc) who are at secondary regularly per arrangements with parents. They all live locally and I don't believe the school has a right to say no to a request like this.

DinnaeFashYersel · 29/08/2023 17:46

That's nuts

My eldest has been collecting my youngest since he was 13.

Michino · 29/08/2023 17:46

I was a TA, and walked a child home several times in similar situations. However, it was after my paid hours had finished. They may not be able to release a member of staff to walk him home because it then leaves them over ratio.

WiddlinDiddlin · 29/08/2023 17:48

coverp · 29/08/2023 17:14

Your DH needs to leave work.

Or, you need to get in the car and drive the <1 minute down the road to pick him up, even if that means having an accident in the car.

I can't believe that so many people are suggesting that you tell the club to call SS. How upsetting and traumatic for your son would that be.

I think the OP was concerned about having a car accident - driving whilst too unwell to operate a car, with a fever... and crashing. Not shitting herself in the car (though that would also be unpleasant!)...

This sounds totally ridiculous OP - and if police/SS were called, they'd be told just how ridiculous and how much time they were wasting!

Tempone · 29/08/2023 17:49

Why do people keep assuming this is a school, it's a private business with their own policies.

mycoffeecup · 29/08/2023 17:49

Send her, with written permission from you. If they refuse to let the child go, leave them there. Their policy will end up in involving social services, who will give them a bollocking for being so stupid

(realise it is probably sorted by now though - what happened?)

caban · 29/08/2023 17:50

Takoneko · 29/08/2023 17:41

Respectfully, you don’t have the legal right to do any of those things.

The only people who can override parental responsibility in this way are police (for a limited period of up to 72 hours) or the courts.

You can’t just keep a child without their parent’s consent… or transport them home without consent for that matter.

If you feel strongly that the parent is authorising something that isn’t safe then it would need to be a child protection referral to get the authority to detain.

I am shocked that people think they have the right to detain children in this way when even social services can’t do that.

Show quote history

I don't think that's true to be honest. Very common for childcare settings and schools to refuse to release young children on their own or with other children even if a parent requests they do so.
That's not the same as refusing to hand a child over to someone with parental responsibility. The parent can still come and get their child whenever they want - the child is being cared for, not detained.

spanieleyes · 29/08/2023 17:50

The OP will need to check the terms and conditions of the ASC. If an age of collection is detailed in there and the OP has previously agreed to it, then presumably if she no longer wants to abide by the terms and conditions, she will need to find alternative after school care.

Bromptotoo · 29/08/2023 17:51

I'd be tempted to send her round and challenge them to keep her brother there.

We had ridiculousness when my daughter was in the Guides. I had to leave my car and walk ten metres to the door so the Guider could see the whites of my eyes.

Daughter by then was 13/14 and happy travelling alone on trains to London or to home of family friends 150 miles away in N Wales.

SapphosRock · 29/08/2023 17:52

OP is there not a school WhatsApp group where you could send out a SOS?