…to want things formalised in DM’s will, or am I being grabby?

[GoodWillDrafting]

We’re a small, close family and we all get on very well, so the last thing I want is to create bad feeling. But…

My DM, a widow, has helped my DSis out financially a fair bit, whereas I’ve never wanted or needed any help since I stopped being a student over three decades ago.

The most recent bail-out involved a pretty hefty sum, which my DSis suggested be deducted from the amount she inherits from our mum’s estate, whenever that might be.
I have no problem with this, but I do want it to be formalised somehow, as I know how easily these things get forgotten/the details blur, and my mum won’t be around to make sure it happens.

I’ve also suggested that the previous lump sum my mum “lent” my DSis should be included (from earlier this year).

My own circumstances are that I’m fine for money now, but have a disabled child who’s likely to need more, rather than less care as she gets older, and I can see myself being unable to work at some point.

I mentioned the issue (again) to my mum yesterday, and she looked a bit panicky and said she didn’t want to upset my DSis or let her know we’d been talking about her finances.

My attitude is that all this stuff should be out in the open as it concerns us all, and if anyone’s going to be potentially pissed off, it’s me. I’d be happy for the three of us to sit down and discuss it, even though I find talking about money really awkward, especially as none of us enjoys talking about profiting from DM’s death!

Am I being unreasonable to want the money DM has lent/advanced DSis reflected in her will? Or am I being grabby?

NC for obvious reasons.

Usually parents give equally even if the other doesn't need it so I find even the current situation a bit off, I would have thought she would change the will herself but sounds like she has memory issues already if she really can't remember a large amount from a few months ago.

Reading with interest as I am the sister in this scenario....yanbu to want it formally recorded, I've insisted our DM do the same. She says she has but I'm not sure I believe her....she's very much of the opinion that it's her money and she can do what she wants. She's right obviously but I just desperately want it all to be fair and as smooth as possible when the time comes.

For what it's worth, I'd much rather be the sister that doesn't need any hand outs but here we are. My dsis is much more capable and independent than me and I feel enormously guilty about the whole thing.

Well, if something isn't put into writing, I guarantee you your sister will 'forget' that any such loan/advance took place and expect 50% of what's left when your mum passes, OP.

That is the harsh cold reality of most people.

I have had something similar but it was a parent who gave me some money. before they passed.

Now parent has died I have taken that off my 'share'. I am the only Executor. It wasnt written down anywhere but we trust each other and I am doing the majority of care as siblings live abroad.

Could I ask how much we are talking about? If its a couple of thousand I would let it go. Anything like £40K is different. Would sibling take that into account when the estate was divvided up or would it be forgotton about?

Money does make people do funny, and often selfish things egged on often by partners of beneficies!

This may well be the case. DM knows that the gifts/loans will exceed potential inheritance. She possibly doesn't want to face the thought that DSis' inheritance could be almost nothing. She may also be worried that DSis 'needs' the inheritance whereas DM doesn't perceive @GoodWillDrafting having the same need.

OP is perceived as the strong one, the coper. I wouldn't keel over in shock if the will gets rewritten to leave the whole estate to DSis.

Obviously your dm should alter the will, if she really intended the money to be evened out this way.

I think the fact that she hasn't makes it clear that she wants to give this money as a gift to your sister seperate from the inheritance.

That might be hurtful, but I don't think it is right for you to push your dm about her will. It is ultimately her choice.

Your mum has a will and if she wanted to change it she would have or will do so in the future. I wouldn’t look kindly on one of my children acting like you are, if I help any of them when I’m alive, that’s my choice as it what my will says. I imagine she’s saying things to keep you happy, but the truth is that if she wanted something different, she would do it. Leave your mum alone.

The will can only be changed by the mother.
Unless the OP's mother asked for a loan agreement any money given out before death are gifts.

The DS and the OP will end up falling out if the OP expects DS will be happy to hand over "her share" of her mothers estate.
If DS was going to repay the estate she would be giving her mother a letter confirming she got a loan each time she was given money. If it has not happened by now it is not going to happen.
The OP's mother has not "forgotten" the amount rather she has written it off.

I am 100% in agreement with this. What your DM chooses to do with her assets both in life and when she is gone is her choice, her decision and should not be influenced by yourself and/or your DS.

These threads always wind me up so much.

particularly the cretins comparing the mum spending her money on luxuries and giving it to the sister.

of course it’s absolutely fine for someone to spend their money on themselves to live. a fun life, that’s not the same as treating their children completely differently which is always going to be unfair and cause resentment

and it’s also true to some extent that it’s none of the OPs business, however if the mum wants to go down this path it would also not be unreasonable for the OP to state that any care or help needed would be the sisters business.

Ive seen this blatant favouritism so many times on MN - as a previous poster suggested I think it’s probably guilt that they have allowed the sibling to be a useless, spendthrift twat.

If she dies leaving an estate larger than the Inheritance Tax Threshold (currently £325,000), then all gifts/loans of over £250 made in the previous 7 years will have to be declared on the probate/IHT form. (I won't go into the details, though I learned them from bitter experience arising from a similar situation in my own family. gov.uk explains the system quite well.)

If she owns a house and savings/capital, then depending on their current value and her state of health, it may be worth her taking proper Inheritance Tax planning advice.

You made the point that you have never "needed" any help in post. Obviously your sister has needed help and you Mum has wanted to provide it.
I think you should forget about any money given or lent during your mums lifetime. If your Mum wants to balance things at the end that's for her to do - and doesn't require any input from you or anyone else. It's not your money nor your sisters, what was given or lent is passed - unless your Mum CHOOSES to balance. If your Mum brings this up again then you should respond simply " that you trust her to do whatever she feels is fair and that she doesn't need to discuss it with anyone".
If it turns out your sister had a bigger share overall that's fine. You didn't need it and she did. Worrying about getting a fair share is a bit ugly - life never is completely fair.

Yes, I would definitely go with if it’s not in the will it’s definitely not going to happen!

I think how you approach this depends on how much money you are talking about? Is it thousands of pounds or a few hundred ?

No you're not being unfair, and I say that from the POV that I was your sister.

I borrowed large amounts, multiple times, and it was clear amongst myself and my sisters any amounts would be deducted from any future inheritance. And everyone was very clear about that, to the point we didn't amend the will each time, but I was in no uncertain terms it was all documented and would be carried out.

As it happens I've just finished paying back every penny and these days treat my Mum. So that no longer needs to happen. But you have every right to have it documented legally.

My parents are concerned with things being unequal between me and my sibling. They've always tried to be 100% fair. They are giving a significant sum of money to my sibling so instead of changing the will to show this they are planning on giving the same money to me to be used on something significant such as house improvements etc. I've told them that it isn't necessary despite me struggling financially at the moment because I'd rather they used their own money for whatever they want to do in their 70s and onward. However they know what my sibling is like. My sibling is waiting for that inheritance to hit their bank account. However they are ok at the moment and have multiple holidays a year whereas I struggle to buy food. So my parents are insisting that I take the money now. My parents are quite well off so they can do this however I think your mum should contact the solicitor to update the will. It can always be changed again if you dsis pays the money back.

So it was asked for by your sister as an early inheritance, and that was the basis that you said you didn't mind. Id play the 'of course it needs to be reflected in the will' card and question why your mum is reluctant to do something that you all agreed to.

Is she scared of your sister?

She admits it’s not fair but I think she’s worried about rocking the boat with DSis. DSis has taken the line that “of course” she’ll sort out what she owes when the time comes

With the usual caveats that noone's entitled to anything and that it could all go in care fees anyway, I don't think you're BU - however in light of the above don't be surprised if adjustments to the will never get done, and that your DS changes the goalposts when the time comes

This "borrowing from the inheritance" happens so often and has so much potential for upset, more so when the parent waves it aside with a flappy hand and an "Ooooo mustn't upset ...". It's deeply unfair on those who are left, but I'm not sure there's much you can do about it apart from what you're already doing

I realise that it’s hard to understand the dynamic of a family that you don’t know, but just to clear up a few points:

— DSis and I had equal education opportunities, both university educated.

— DSis earns well some years and less well in others, because of the nature of her work. Her husband is a well-paid professional, who will probably carry on climbing the career ladder and earning a lot.

— I was earning a high-average amount until I had DC. Now, because of her care needs, both DP and I only work part-time. DP’s work is poorly paid because of the industry he’s in.

— DSis and family go on multiple expensive holidays a year, the most recent two paid for by DM.

So it’s not that I need less, so much as I’ve asked for less. And if it weren’t for my DC, I wouldn’t be concerning myself with DM’s will. But I don’t feel I’m being fair to my child and her future by letting this one slide.

I’ve seen a friend get screwed over by family as there was no formal will around the promising of money after a house was involved. They reheated them completely and lost out hugely once the person passed

The latest amounts are tens of thousands, if that makes any difference.

@SquishyGloopyBum She’s not scared of DSis, she’s just a people-pleaser who avoids unpleasant conversations (as am I!)

So your Mum is treating your sister to multiple holidays? That is different. No wonder you are somewhat annoyed!

Eeek going agains the grain here but I think YABVU. Your mum is still alive and what she chooses to do with her money is entirely up to her. The money she has gifted your sister is just that- a gift from your mum to her. If she’s said it’ll come out of the will then great, she can sort that, but it’s really nothing to do with you. You could also consider asking your mum for an advance on your inheritance if you want, but otherwise I think you are being really entitled and overstepping massively to be getting involved with how your mum choses to spend her money right now.

Your update changes things somewhat! I assumed she actually needed the money. You are not being unreasonable at all, your sister is insanely grabby