…to want things formalised in DM’s will, or am I being grabby?

[GoodWillDrafting]

We’re a small, close family and we all get on very well, so the last thing I want is to create bad feeling. But…

My DM, a widow, has helped my DSis out financially a fair bit, whereas I’ve never wanted or needed any help since I stopped being a student over three decades ago.

The most recent bail-out involved a pretty hefty sum, which my DSis suggested be deducted from the amount she inherits from our mum’s estate, whenever that might be.
I have no problem with this, but I do want it to be formalised somehow, as I know how easily these things get forgotten/the details blur, and my mum won’t be around to make sure it happens.

I’ve also suggested that the previous lump sum my mum “lent” my DSis should be included (from earlier this year).

My own circumstances are that I’m fine for money now, but have a disabled child who’s likely to need more, rather than less care as she gets older, and I can see myself being unable to work at some point.

I mentioned the issue (again) to my mum yesterday, and she looked a bit panicky and said she didn’t want to upset my DSis or let her know we’d been talking about her finances.

My attitude is that all this stuff should be out in the open as it concerns us all, and if anyone’s going to be potentially pissed off, it’s me. I’d be happy for the three of us to sit down and discuss it, even though I find talking about money really awkward, especially as none of us enjoys talking about profiting from DM’s death!

Am I being unreasonable to want the money DM has lent/advanced DSis reflected in her will? Or am I being grabby?

NC for obvious reasons.

Shocked that this scenario was “deducted” from her share of the inheritance. Can’t believe the two sisters were ok with it either

You're missing a fundamental logic though which is - why do parents have to be "fair"? They usually aren't ime. They treat their kids differently based on an assessment of their needs.

You have a disabled DS - not sure if you have any other kids but if you did, you'd definitely treat them differently.

You may argue (very reasonably) that your DSis isn't disabled, just lazy or made bad choices.

But then mums feel responsible for that too. She wonders, did I bring up DD2 badly? Is she lazy/made bad life choices because I didn't raise her right? Will she be OK when I'm gone? Etc.

Honestly, if your mum wanted to do this "fairly" she'd have changed the Will already without you prompting.

I've had to let all the other stuff go, for the sake of my parents & my bloody sanity, but when I think back to all the times I stayed home & ate beans on toast for weeks on end while he was pi$$ing his money away & then being bailed out because he couldn't afford to pay his gas bill or his rent or put petrol in his car, etc. Not to mention the many times they stumped up thousands to consolidate all his credit card & loan debt after he'd gotten himself into yet another state; all the while bleating about how his job didn't pay very well, but with no intention whatsoever of trying to better himself & find one that did!!

Solicitors! They've already added 1 thing. It won't be the last.

Just saw this. I can see how your DM thinks this is fair, even if many wouldn't agree.

She'll see the bailouts as just parenting, a separate thing to the inheritance.

I'd be thankful you're getting even 50%. In my experience it goes the other way, even, with the feckless debt-ridden DC getting more than their "fair" share.

And you know, I'm not even sure what I'd do with my kids in the same position.

Op if you are worried about not being able to work for caring for dc in the future would dm leave a sum directly to your dc? If you ever needed to claim benefits to care for dc and you had a lump sum you would be peniised. If the money is banked for dc no issue and dc can have help paid for themselves..

@Mummy08m Is it “just parenting” when the child in question is in her mid-40s with two kids of her own?

You are not being unreasonable to wish that your mother would change her will to even things out.

However I don't think she will do it, I don't think she wants to do it, and I don't think you should push her. I also think in due course your sister will not offer to take a lesser share of her inheritance, and you will be made to feel bad if you suggest it. It's all a bit crap, but sometimes that's the way things go in families.

@Trenchfootinthescottishhighlandstoday We’ve been expressly advised not to put anything in DC’s name because of affecting her entitlement to benefits. We’ve set up a Disabled Child’s Trust in which everything we leave is used for her benefit when we cark it. Until that point, it’s all in DP’s and my names.

She'll see the bailouts as just parenting, a separate thing to the inheritance.

I agree with this

The advance on the inheritance should be set legally. However if your Mum wants to lend money to your sister and write it off, that's up to her. Perhaps ask the same, but invest it? If she refuses then point out the unfairness.

@TheYearOfSmallThings @Ponoka7 This is the crux. My DM agreed to give DSis the latest chunk of money on the basis that it’s an advance on her inheritance, not a loan. If it were a “loan,” I’d be a bit eye-rolly but would suck it up, as per. The inheritance thing was my DSis’ idea, not mine.

This was going to be my comment but you've got there first.

In theory, yes, it's your mums money to do whatever she wants with, spend it herself, give it all to your sister, whatever. In reality, she's lent/given money to your sister under the stated intention that your sister will either pay back the first sum or that you will receive the same amount at a later date.

No doubt your sister suggested this because she knows she cannot/will not pay the first sum back, and no doubt your sister, being comfortable with the arrangement will ask your mum for more again at some point.

Worth noting also that the same amount will not be the same later, as values change. (£20,000 today and £20,000 in ten years very different). I don't believe for a minute that either of them have forgotten the amount, more likely that they are both uncomfortable about how the arrangement has panned out and don't want to mention the amount in front of you.

If your mum is open to discussing this, and is genuinely reasonable, you could suggest that she levels things now. Either by giving you the equivalent lump sum now, or by putting in trust for your disabled child's future. Explain that you've never asked for money because you've always managed, but that doesn't mean you don't also struggle. Also explain that upon her eventual death you will be devastated and the last thing you want to deal with at that time is financial negotiations with your sister (if she doesn't remember the amount now how will it be remembered in future?)

Her answer may be no, but at least you'll have made your point clearly and know where you stand in future. Nothing splits families up as much as financial disagreements in my experience.

You could perhaps ask for a similar amount now to invest for your childs future, even if it has to stay in your name for benefit purposes.

One should also consider inheritance tax OP. Whatever is left in the end will be less that and then split 50:50 (with or without deductions for monies already given to your sister). So in real terms you’d be worse off.

It’s for this reason that relatives have chosen to give all three of their children the exact same amount at the same time should any one need it. Also sharpens the mind somewhat as to affordability.

@TaigaSno Excellent post, and you’ve actually summed up exactly where we are at the moment.

If your mother doesn't want to add a codicil to her will, you remember to keep a proper record of the amounts lent and the dates and to whom and when and what was paid back. Keep a proper record so that you can check with sis and Mum each year as to whether it is correct.
Keep an updated record that you can give to the lawyer who is storing the will and who will help with the probate. It will be helpful - like bank statements and insurance documents are.

You are right in saying that it's best to have open discussion, transparency and legally drawn up loans or at least accurate record keeping.

It is not being grabby it is being sensible.

Wills are a great source of conflict, one only has to read the number of posts on MN about inheritance, loans and gifts.

At least get your mother to put in writing the recent loans. Have you spoken to your sister about loans and wills?

It is not unreasonable. We have a similar situation, but ours was a gift rather than a loan and it was to me. DF gave us a sum which we put towards buying our current house. Our house has 2 attached cottages and the condition was that one of them would be for his exclusive use. These cannot be sold off separately before anyone jumps on me, due to the difficulty of access and were self-catering holiday cottages. DF also downsized and bought a flat for a very similar sum. DF's will states that the flat goes to my sister. We have all agreed that it is fair, and now my DDs are adults, they too understand the situation.

@Countdown2023 DSis called
me when she and DM were discussing the possibility of the advance. I told her it was fine with me but I thought it needed to be recorded somehow. DSis sounded a bit taken aback and said something about not thinking that was necessary and she’d remember. Unfortunately, I was working when she called so we didn’t discuss it any further at the time.

Agree with this.
Unfairness in wills causes a lot of pain and resentment. You are not being unreasonable OP.m

I think it's grabby. Your DM is alive and well and you're fretting over her money and how you could end up with less because DSis has already had some of "her share" that's just gross. I'm team DM blowing the lot on frivolous shit and nice holidays and neither of you seeing another penny.

Easiest way to keep track is for your mum to match what she gives to her, to you. But that only works if she’s genuinely comfortable and unworried about money. Codicils and getting solicitors involved is last resort. Unless the gifts are 5 figures you could watch the estate be swallowed up in fees.

@Lamelie I don’t actually know whether she’s in a position to do that now. The last thing I would want would be for her to be strapped for cash because she’s given it to me.

Because I've been in your exact situation 🙂