Page 17 | …to want things formalised in DM’s will, or am I being grabby?

GoodWillDrafting · 2023-08-29T07:37:35+00:00

We’re a small, close family and we all get on very well, so the last thing I want is to create bad feeling. But… My DM, a widow, has helped my DSis out financially a fair bit, whereas I’ve never wanted or needed any help since I stopped being a student over three decades ago. The most recent bail-out involved a pretty hefty sum, which my DSis suggested be deducted from the amount she inherits from our mum’s estate, whenever that might be. I have no problem with this, but I do want it to be formalised somehow, as I know how easily these things get forgotten/the details blur, and my mum won’t be around to make sure it happens. I’ve also suggested that the previous lump sum my mum “lent” my DSis should be included (from earlier this year). My own circumstances are that I’m fine for money now, but have a disabled child who’s likely to need more, rather than less care as she gets older, and I can see myself being unable to work at some point. I mentioned the issue (again) to my mum yesterday, and she looked a bit panicky and said she didn’t want to upset my DSis or let her know we’d been talking about her finances. My attitude is that all this stuff should be out in the open as it concerns us all, and if anyone’s going to be potentially pissed off, it’s me. I’d be happy for the three of us to sit down and discuss it, even though I find talking about money really awkward, especially as none of us enjoys talking about profiting from DM’s death! Am I being unreasonable to want the money DM has lent/advanced DSis reflected in her will? Or am I being grabby? NC for obvious reasons.

Iwasafool · 01/09/2023 08:54

DustyCorner · 31/08/2023 22:51

I think giving one child more in the will because they have provided more care and support is uncomfortably transactional. My sibling lives several hours away from my DM. I don't. I'm not providing care but as DM is slowing up I definitely provide more emotional and practical support. My sibling and I both have a loving healthy relationship with DM. I would be horrified if I found she had changed her will to 'reward' me for my time at the expense of my sibling.

Some people give up work, live at home to provide care and never buy their own house while their siblings are paying off their mortgage and building their pension. You clearly aren't actually a carer so it is a different situation.

Iwasafool · 01/09/2023 08:56

Totalwasteofpaper · 01/09/2023 01:44

Some of these posts are insane and so bloody mumsnet.

Its grabby to be practical.
Its grabby to give a shit about blatantly preferential treatment.
It's grabby to want to ensure you head off conflict/family rift now so you arent dealing with bereavement and a will that doesnt represent deceaseds wishes plus a "forgetful" sister.

yanbu at all.
I would raise it again and frame it to your mother as it not being fair to put this on you to deal with when you will already be devastated by her passing. Its important/ fair that she ensures her will accurately reflects her wishes as otherwise conflict may occur if "recollections vary"
Also point out she doesnt need to even mention the revised will to your dsis as its already been agreed.

Edited

Totally reasonable to keep harassing an elderly woman and trying to persuade her to change her will. Yes that's great isn't it. Leave the poor woman alone.

burnoutbabe · 01/09/2023 09:10

Do you have proof that the loan was made -something in writing that confirms it from mum or her.

As then all you need to do when executing the will is just deduct that and split the rest.

She would have to prove it was a gift. It would have to go to court if you don't agree.
the will does not need to be updated. Just the loan needs to be documented in writing (with sister's confirmation it's a loan too)

burnoutbabe · 01/09/2023 09:23

Luxell934 · 29/08/2023 15:33

Maybe try enjoying your mum for however long is left rather than worrying about how much money your going to get. It seems that in this situation unless your mum changes her will then theres very little that can be done about it. It will be split 50/50 with you and your sister. Your mum is capable of making her own choices, so let her make them.

I do think it needs being out of the open.

Mum says it will be sorted out via any inheritance

No mum, it won't, as it's not in your will/formally documented as a loan.
Sister has been given £x and the rest is 50/50. That's the legal position now and I have accepted that's what you want.

Then change the subject and repeat if mentioned again.

Pandor · 01/09/2023 09:56

@Iwasafool:

“Totally reasonable to keep harassing an elderly woman and trying to persuade her to change her will. Yes that's great isn't it. Leave the poor woman alone.”

yes - totally reasonable. She has clearly created a situation full of uncertainty which has the potential to destroy the relationship between two sisters. There is no benefit in sitting back, waiting for her to die and then watching it all explode, when she is able to make her precise wishes clear now.

Being 82 isn’t some sort of get out of jail free card (she’s only a couple of years older than the current US president!). It is perfectly possible for her to make a poor decision, or to avoid taking action just because SHE wants to avoid conflict and have an easy life. But when that decision impacts other people it is quite right for them to call her out on it.

The uncertainty is the killer, saying one thing to one daughter, potentially something else to the other, avoiding taking any action, burying her head in the sand - it is poor behaviour and it will have consequences. If she cares about either of them she needs to do something about it.

Iwasafool · 01/09/2023 09:59

Pandor · 01/09/2023 09:56

@Iwasafool:

“Totally reasonable to keep harassing an elderly woman and trying to persuade her to change her will. Yes that's great isn't it. Leave the poor woman alone.”

yes - totally reasonable. She has clearly created a situation full of uncertainty which has the potential to destroy the relationship between two sisters. There is no benefit in sitting back, waiting for her to die and then watching it all explode, when she is able to make her precise wishes clear now.

Being 82 isn’t some sort of get out of jail free card (she’s only a couple of years older than the current US president!). It is perfectly possible for her to make a poor decision, or to avoid taking action just because SHE wants to avoid conflict and have an easy life. But when that decision impacts other people it is quite right for them to call her out on it.

The uncertainty is the killer, saying one thing to one daughter, potentially something else to the other, avoiding taking any action, burying her head in the sand - it is poor behaviour and it will have consequences. If she cares about either of them she needs to do something about it.

Call her out on what she does with her own money? What a cheek. Yes at 82 she can make her own decisions. I'm a little bit younger but if one of my kids kept harassing me about my will they'd be told to mind their own business and if they persisted I'd reassure them that I was making a new will and they didn't need to worry as they won't be mentioned in it.

Fivethirtyeight · 01/09/2023 10:03

GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 09:07

There’s also the possibility that there won’t be anything to inherit, if it all goes on care costs. In which case, so be it.

Or there won’t be anything to inherit because your DSis is given more and more during your mother’s life. Are you sure your mother is doing this voluntarily?

Fivethirtyeight · 01/09/2023 10:04

Pandor · 01/09/2023 09:56

@Iwasafool:

“Totally reasonable to keep harassing an elderly woman and trying to persuade her to change her will. Yes that's great isn't it. Leave the poor woman alone.”

yes - totally reasonable. She has clearly created a situation full of uncertainty which has the potential to destroy the relationship between two sisters. There is no benefit in sitting back, waiting for her to die and then watching it all explode, when she is able to make her precise wishes clear now.

Being 82 isn’t some sort of get out of jail free card (she’s only a couple of years older than the current US president!). It is perfectly possible for her to make a poor decision, or to avoid taking action just because SHE wants to avoid conflict and have an easy life. But when that decision impacts other people it is quite right for them to call her out on it.

The uncertainty is the killer, saying one thing to one daughter, potentially something else to the other, avoiding taking any action, burying her head in the sand - it is poor behaviour and it will have consequences. If she cares about either of them she needs to do something about it.

Yes. This.

Honeychickpea · 01/09/2023 10:06

GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 09:06

@Soontobe60 DSis has said she wants to borrow from my mother’s estate, of which she and I are the only beneficiaries. So yes, it is a case of paying me back.

Edited

No. Your mother's money is not yours. If she passes, wills it to you or others, then it becomes part of the estate.as of now it is your mother's money. Not yours, not owed to you.

Fivethirtyeight · 01/09/2023 10:10

Iwasafool · 01/09/2023 09:59

Call her out on what she does with her own money? What a cheek. Yes at 82 she can make her own decisions. I'm a little bit younger but if one of my kids kept harassing me about my will they'd be told to mind their own business and if they persisted I'd reassure them that I was making a new will and they didn't need to worry as they won't be mentioned in it.

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Call her out on not following through with important promises. She has said she will be fair but she hasn’t been. Both OP and DM know perfectly well that DSis can’t be trusted.

You may be robust but I suspect OP’s mother is being pressured by DSis.

If you wanted to give all your money to one child not the other, you would be honest about it. OP’s DM is giving her money to one child whilst pretending it isn’t happening. I suspect duress.

Fivethirtyeight · 01/09/2023 10:11

SafferUpNorth · 31/08/2023 09:54

This is an excellent suggestion!!

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Oh yes! It is.

Iwasafool · 01/09/2023 10:14

Fivethirtyeight · 01/09/2023 10:10

Call her out on not following through with important promises. She has said she will be fair but she hasn’t been. Both OP and DM know perfectly well that DSis can’t be trusted.

You may be robust but I suspect OP’s mother is being pressured by DSis.

If you wanted to give all your money to one child not the other, you would be honest about it. OP’s DM is giving her money to one child whilst pretending it isn’t happening. I suspect duress.

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She might feel she is being fair for reasons we know nothing about. Fair doesn't always mean you get exactly the same, as someone said earlier you might give one child more because they have sacrificed their time to help you or because you see one child as needing more support because of health issues or learning difficulties.

No one has a right to their parents money, no one has a right to harass their parent because they want their "share" or what they think their share should be.

The OP is pressuring her mother, she has been quite clear that she has brought this up more than once.

MrsSkylerWhite · 01/09/2023 10:17

Call her out? I’m owed?

I’d be disgusted if you were my daughter.

Pandor · 01/09/2023 10:20

@Iwasafool -

“Call her out on what she does with her own money? What a cheek. Yes at 82 she can make her own decisions. I'm a little bit younger but if one of my kids kept harassing me about my will they'd be told to mind their own business and if they persisted I'd reassure them that I was making a new will and they didn't need to worry as they won't be mentioned in it.”

I don’t think you’re actually reading what I wrote! Calling her out isn’t about saying what she can and can’t do with her own money for god’s sake!

Calling her out is making it clear that as things currently stand she has created a huge amount of uncertainty. She has acquiesced to money being “borrowed” by one sister against an eventual inheritance, she has let the other know (or believe) that it is a loan, she has expressed a desire for things to be fair between them when she dies, but she isn’t making what she actually wants clear and unambiguous. That is a clusterfuck waiting to happen but it can easily be avoided if she just engages and makes things absolutely clear.

it is the difference between telling her what to do with her money (not reasonable) and potential beneficiaries needing certainty to avoid an almighty row that might cast a long and unpleasant shadow over the lives of both her daughters (totally reasonable).

if a child wanting clarity over your wishes is enough to make you write them out of your will that is quite revealing. You seem to be someone willing to use money as a weapon, something to use to punish what you see as poor behaviour by others. I think we have very different views on that. Good luck to your kids though…

Boomboom22 · 01/09/2023 10:40

Some shocking parents on here, what a nightmare to have someone with iwasafool attitude as your parent. Spiteful and petty, do they even love their kids at all if they would cut them off for asking if they would do what they explicitly promised they would.

Fivethirtyeight · 01/09/2023 10:43

Iwasafool · 01/09/2023 10:14

She might feel she is being fair for reasons we know nothing about. Fair doesn't always mean you get exactly the same, as someone said earlier you might give one child more because they have sacrificed their time to help you or because you see one child as needing more support because of health issues or learning difficulties.

No one has a right to their parents money, no one has a right to harass their parent because they want their "share" or what they think their share should be.

The OP is pressuring her mother, she has been quite clear that she has brought this up more than once.

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No. OP’s mother has said what she thinks I fair but she hasn’t done it.

Layinwait · 01/09/2023 10:50

Totalwasteofpaper · 01/09/2023 01:44

Some of these posts are insane and so bloody mumsnet.

Its grabby to be practical.
Its grabby to give a shit about blatantly preferential treatment.
It's grabby to want to ensure you head off conflict/family rift now so you arent dealing with bereavement and a will that doesnt represent deceaseds wishes plus a "forgetful" sister.

yanbu at all.
I would raise it again and frame it to your mother as it not being fair to put this on you to deal with when you will already be devastated by her passing. Its important/ fair that she ensures her will accurately reflects her wishes as otherwise conflict may occur if "recollections vary"
Also point out she doesnt need to even mention the revised will to your dsis as its already been agreed.

Edited

I always smile when a poster thinks they ride in to a thread and give the definitive clear answer and clear up matters 😂

Layinwait · 01/09/2023 10:52

Yes the DM has created uncertainty but her approach to her will

but… that is her prerogative and whilst the Op can raise her concerns, if the DM doesn’t do anything - then the OP needs to back off!

Fivethirtyeight · 01/09/2023 10:53

Layinwait · 01/09/2023 10:52

Yes the DM has created uncertainty but her approach to her will

but… that is her prerogative and whilst the Op can raise her concerns, if the DM doesn’t do anything - then the OP needs to back off!

Ok. Legally it is her prerogative. But it’s an emotionally abusive thing to do. I don’t think OP’s mother intends that. I think she intends to do whatever DSis wants and is unhappy that she is treating OP dishonestly.

Layinwait · 01/09/2023 10:56

I think personally that the DM wants it to be a gift

and if the OP was to ask for for financial assistance as her sister did - her mother would happily oblige

Fivethirtyeight · 01/09/2023 10:58

Layinwait · 01/09/2023 10:56

I think personally that the DM wants it to be a gift

and if the OP was to ask for for financial assistance as her sister did - her mother would happily oblige

Then she should stop lying about making it right in the will.

As you and pp said, it may be best for OP to ask for similar now.

Layinwait · 01/09/2023 11:01

Then she should stop lying about making it right in the will.

I have read all the OP’s posts and no where does she say her mother is doing this or even suggests she is

Original poster

GoodWillDrafting · 01/09/2023 11:40

@Fivethirtyeight is right. DM is very conscious that she’s not been equitable in how much financial help she’s given her children, and has said repeatedly that she is bothered by this.

It’s the step of actually formalising something that is the sticking point. She’s worried that by putting it in writing, she’ll upset DSis - possibly with the implication that she doesn’t trust her to deduct the amount from her inheritance when the time comes.

I’m certainly not harassing her or calling her out about what she does with her money.

OP posts:

Original poster

GoodWillDrafting · 01/09/2023 11:41

She hasn’t lied about making it right in her will, but she does repeatedly refer to it as an advance on DSis’ inheritance rather than a gift or a loan to be repaid while she’s alive.

OP posts:

Layinwait · 01/09/2023 11:43

Op

if you were to ask for financial assistance - would your mother support you as she did your DS?