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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

…to want things formalised in DM’s will, or am I being grabby?

448 replies

GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 08:37

We’re a small, close family and we all get on very well, so the last thing I want is to create bad feeling. But…

My DM, a widow, has helped my DSis out financially a fair bit, whereas I’ve never wanted or needed any help since I stopped being a student over three decades ago.

The most recent bail-out involved a pretty hefty sum, which my DSis suggested be deducted from the amount she inherits from our mum’s estate, whenever that might be.
I have no problem with this, but I do want it to be formalised somehow, as I know how easily these things get forgotten/the details blur, and my mum won’t be around to make sure it happens.

I’ve also suggested that the previous lump sum my mum “lent” my DSis should be included (from earlier this year).

My own circumstances are that I’m fine for money now, but have a disabled child who’s likely to need more, rather than less care as she gets older, and I can see myself being unable to work at some point.

I mentioned the issue (again) to my mum yesterday, and she looked a bit panicky and said she didn’t want to upset my DSis or let her know we’d been talking about her finances.

My attitude is that all this stuff should be out in the open as it concerns us all, and if anyone’s going to be potentially pissed off, it’s me. I’d be happy for the three of us to sit down and discuss it, even though I find talking about money really awkward, especially as none of us enjoys talking about profiting from DM’s death!

Am I being unreasonable to want the money DM has lent/advanced DSis reflected in her will? Or am I being grabby?

NC for obvious reasons.

OP posts:
SafferUpNorth · 31/08/2023 09:54

HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 31/08/2023 07:46

I wonder if the easiest thing is to ask to 'borrow' a similar amount now, and set it aside for future care costs for your disabled child.

It would remove the need for any formalisation as your both in the same position then.

It's hard to ask I know, and you may be afraid of a rejection that would bring it home even more clearly about the favouritism. Only you can know whether this is a reasonable option

This is an excellent suggestion!!

Bibby98 · 31/08/2023 09:57

Pandor · 31/08/2023 09:24

@Bibby98 - so you are saying that even though the sister keeps saying she is borrowing this money from the estate, and in spite of what the mum has said about money being a loan, the OP should just ignore what she’s been told, “read between the lines” and forget about it?

how far should she take that? If the sister asks to borrow her entire inheritance now and says to the mum not to worry, that she will just sort it out directly by handing her half to the OP when the mum dies, the OP should just be fine with that set up - in spite of there being absolutely nothing in writing to make that clear or to even acknowledge how much money she will be owed?

What if it turns out that there is no other money left when the mum dies, and the money “loaned” to the sister ends up being all there is. The sister then “reads between the lines” just like you did and decides that actually maybe it was a gift to her after all. Is that just tough luck for the OP, an unfortunate result of her sister being canny enough to spin the line about needing a loan to secure an early payout?

I just cannot believe that in a situation where the sister is asking for loans in order to get her inheritance safely locked away well before her mum dies, it is the OP that is being called grabby and accused of all sorts for simply trying to bring a bit of clarity (and hopefully preserve her relation with her sister).

Created a whole story there didn’t you! Truth is we don’t know and it’s still mums money it’s not inheritance at this time, it’s MUMS money. You don’t know there’s any squirrelling going on, OP in original post made it sound like, they are all fine with each other no issues with favouritism, she just wanted to protect her future assets! In my opinion, which was asked by posting on here, she should respect her mum enough (if what she’s saying about the relationship between them all is true) to know that she is doing as she wishes, and when the dreadful day comes that they begin to inherit that they won’t argue over the materialistic! I wouldn’t dream of treating my parents money as my inheritance. Regardless. And again if what was said is true I would trusts that my parents did what they felt best, and right at the time. I don’t agree, that’s it opinion given. Good day to you.

Gatehouse77 · 31/08/2023 10:26

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 31/08/2023 09:43

Personally I think you are being a bit grabby. As living parents, we help our children where needed in the here and now.....it's not always perfectly fair and that's just life.

Except that both mum and sister have spoken openly about making it ‘fair’ so OP isn’t being ‘grabby’.

Maltaw · 31/08/2023 10:28

YANBU and you are not being grabby.

I think the issue is you have a skewed view of your family. You’re under the impression they’re all nice and everything is great between you all.

The truth is your sister isn’t very nice and takes advantage of your mothers kindness/weakness.

I agree with this. If you had been the one who borrowed money you would have insisted on you Mum reflecting it in the will. I would have and anyone who is decent would have. It's only grabby selfish people who 'borrow' money and 'forget' to pay it back. My brother in law and his wife are the same. On the outside they are lovely friendly people but they are very forgetful when it comes to paying people back when they have borrowed money. I would never behave like that.

If I were you I would push this. A lot of Mumsnet is obsessed with not being grabby but it's normal to inherit from parents. This is a problem that can be fixed now by getting your Mum to sort her will.

Pandor · 31/08/2023 10:46

It’s not “stories” for god’s sake, it’s working through potential consequences - it is how sensible people weigh up whether ideas are good, bad or likely to blow up in everyone’s faces!

You say “it’s still mums money it’s not inheritance at this time, it’s MUMS money.” - but if it isn’t an inheritance how can the sister say she is borrowing against it, and how can the mum say she is lending against it - that makes no sense!

You may say that you wouldn’t dream of treating your parents money as your inheritance - well marvellous for you but that is EXACTLY what the sister has done here, and so now the OP is trying to manage the consequences of that and preserve future relationships .

If you imagine that being owed tens of thousands by a sibling upon the mum’s death (again - this is the situation as presented to the OP) is no biggie, just the sort of thing that can happily be ignored then I’m afraid that’s an absolute fantasy.

The idea that she should passively accept the slow motion car crash being put in place is ludicrous when a grown up conversation between all 3 can stop that from happening.

Even if the result of that conversation is the mum and sister saying “look, it was bollocks for us to suggest this was a loan, it’s actually a gift on top of sister’s share of the inheritance” then at least the OP has clarity and can try to make peace with that.

At the moment though she is being left in this untenable position of not knowing what is really true, what people’s intentions really are - and that is guaranteed to fuck things up!

MillyLamb · 31/08/2023 10:46

I like what I have seen other families do, when a parent bails out one child, the others get given the same amount at the same time, whether they need it or not, that way no animosity can develop. I suggest if your DM has sufficient money now, that whatever has been given to your sisters is calculated and given to all sisters fairly, don’t wait for a will. If as a parent you cannot give the same to all of your children you shouldn’t give to just one.

Catza · 31/08/2023 11:13

The tricky thing is that it's you mother's money to do with as she is pleased. Neither of you are entitled to your mother's inheritance or a specific part of it if the will says otherwise. And neither of you are entitled to her money now. If she choses to give large sums of money to your sister, that's her money and her decision. It does not mean that she needs to change the will so you get equal support. If she wants to do it herself, then fine. But telling her what to do with her will could be seen as coercion. You'll just have to accept that the situation will be what it will be.

Belindabelle · 31/08/2023 11:41

DH has a similar situation. His sibling had their mortgage paid off by parents on the birth of their first child. DH was told he would get the same. It never happened.

MIL tried to rectify the situation by gifting DH some money after FIL died. However getting money in your late 40’s does not give you the same life advantage as getting your mortgage paid off in your twenties.

DH received the exact same amount but almost 30 years later. The money was originally enough to buy a house. It was barely enough for DH to upgrade his car.

Having two children myself I can’t understand treating your children so differently. It’s not just the money itself but the disparity it creates. My children haven’t had the same life experiences and opportunities as their cousins. I had to return to work and pay for childcare whereas being mortgage free let SIL be a SAHM.

I will only give to one child if I can afford to invest the same amount for the other.

@GoodWillDrafting I would urge you to try and find a way to resolve this situation with your mum and sister. DH regrets not addressing this unfairness while his father was alive. He now feels that he has let me and our children down by not bringing this up when he had the chance.

The only way to make this fair is for your mum to give you the same amount now or to invest the amount so it will be index linked when you do receive it.

GnomeDePlume · 31/08/2023 13:30

Catza · 31/08/2023 11:13

The tricky thing is that it's you mother's money to do with as she is pleased. Neither of you are entitled to your mother's inheritance or a specific part of it if the will says otherwise. And neither of you are entitled to her money now. If she choses to give large sums of money to your sister, that's her money and her decision. It does not mean that she needs to change the will so you get equal support. If she wants to do it herself, then fine. But telling her what to do with her will could be seen as coercion. You'll just have to accept that the situation will be what it will be.

Without a doubt it is DM's money and decision. The problem for @GoodWillDrafting is that DM is saying one thing then doing another (even if only by doing nothing).

This is getting close to OP effectively being lied to by her DM.

So why is DM lying? Maybe it's to avoid having a difficult conversation with either DSis (I meant it when I said this was an early inheritance) or OP (this is a gift to DSis).

Either way I would lose a lot of respect for DM.

Luddite26 · 31/08/2023 13:57

I don't understand why so many think it's ok to ask an 84 year old to lend them some money.
If dsis wanted to borrow money why it go to the bank. Not an elderly parent.

Tuxedomom · 31/08/2023 14:46

Yanbu. By explicitly stating the will splits everything 50:50, your mum recognises she wants/needs to be fair to you both and that this is a potential source of conflict, but she is doing the opposite now.
Is there a genuine reason your DSis needs the cash, or does she just live comfortably beyond her means, knowing DM will always bail her out? Surely if the the latter, DM can see this would be upsetting to you?

Layinwait · 31/08/2023 16:29

Nonsense the DM is “lying” @GnomeDePlume

She admits it’s not fair but I think she’s worried about rocking the boat with DSis.

her reason for not doing it is because she doesn’t want an awkward conversation. And whilst that is annoying for the OP it is a valid reason for a woman that the Op has full mental capacity and absolutely no concerns about

Layinwait · 31/08/2023 16:31

I suspect that the DM wanted to give the money to the DS as a gift

and if the OP ever asked for similar as her DS… then the DM would oblige and also not want it mentioned in the will

NoThanksymm · 31/08/2023 18:19

Yes you are being grabby, whatever you get from your mom is a kind gift.

BUT. If that’s what she wants and intends she had better put it clearly in the will!!!

it stops arguments after the death, and in guessing your sister will just take the half and ‘forget’ about the agreement - or straight out claim if you mom truly wanted that she would’ve put it in the will.

just put it in the will!

you mom doesn’t truly want that, then that’s her choice.

Zebedee55 · 31/08/2023 18:23

If care costs are needed, it could end up with neither of you getting anything.

Inheritances are meaningless until someone has actually died.

KingOfThieves · 31/08/2023 18:36

If your mum wanted to, she would. it sounds like you already have your answer.

Sleepytimebear · 31/08/2023 18:37

Im in a very similar position. My sister has been given a lot more financial help than me to buy a house and my mother is now talking about leaving the majority of her estate to her when she dies. She says my sister needs it more because I have a better job. This is because we made different life choices in my opinion, not lack of ability or opportunity.

I don't mind that my sister had a lot more help with her house deposit, she needed it, but I think the issue on the inheritance is that I feel my sister is being preferred over me and she's the golden child. May be all in my head of course, but this is how it makes me feel.

So yes I agree, it's my mum's money and she can do what she wants with it, but I still think I'm entitled to feel hurt that my mum would make such a bold statement that she prefers my sister to me.

carolecole · 31/08/2023 19:16

I actually think there are some clear instances where it is 'fair' to give money differently - e.g. one child has done much more of the support and care for aging parents etc. Often, however, the more 'caring' kids are the ones who are also expected to just kindly accept the disparity in financial support to placate the less easy-going sibling.

Confusedmummytotwo · 31/08/2023 21:57

crossstitchingnana · 29/08/2023 09:18

The main reason for doing a will, IMO is to stop family falling out. That's why I've done it.

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. My dad has done a very clear wills and yet my siblings are contesting it and making up all sorts of vile accusations- about me. Yet they have benefitted time and time again from the parents, unlike me.

I can completely see where you are coming from OP and I wish you every luck. You may get on great now, but you won’t once your parents have passed. They all come out the woodwork then.

Iwasafool · 31/08/2023 22:08

MillyLamb · 31/08/2023 10:46

I like what I have seen other families do, when a parent bails out one child, the others get given the same amount at the same time, whether they need it or not, that way no animosity can develop. I suggest if your DM has sufficient money now, that whatever has been given to your sisters is calculated and given to all sisters fairly, don’t wait for a will. If as a parent you cannot give the same to all of your children you shouldn’t give to just one.

If I feel like it I can burn my money, spend my money or give it to whoever I like because it is mine. You do what you like with yours.

Iwasafool · 31/08/2023 22:09

carolecole · 31/08/2023 19:16

I actually think there are some clear instances where it is 'fair' to give money differently - e.g. one child has done much more of the support and care for aging parents etc. Often, however, the more 'caring' kids are the ones who are also expected to just kindly accept the disparity in financial support to placate the less easy-going sibling.

Yes there are definite reasons why it is fair even if not equal and your example is spot on.

DustyCorner · 31/08/2023 22:51

I think giving one child more in the will because they have provided more care and support is uncomfortably transactional. My sibling lives several hours away from my DM. I don't. I'm not providing care but as DM is slowing up I definitely provide more emotional and practical support. My sibling and I both have a loving healthy relationship with DM. I would be horrified if I found she had changed her will to 'reward' me for my time at the expense of my sibling.

carolecole · 31/08/2023 22:54

@DustyCorner it would be uncomfortably transactional for you because of your particular circumstances. I'm sure you can imagine different circumstances.

Totalwasteofpaper · 01/09/2023 01:44

Some of these posts are insane and so bloody mumsnet.

Its grabby to be practical.
Its grabby to give a shit about blatantly preferential treatment.
It's grabby to want to ensure you head off conflict/family rift now so you arent dealing with bereavement and a will that doesnt represent deceaseds wishes plus a "forgetful" sister.

yanbu at all.
I would raise it again and frame it to your mother as it not being fair to put this on you to deal with when you will already be devastated by her passing. Its important/ fair that she ensures her will accurately reflects her wishes as otherwise conflict may occur if "recollections vary"
Also point out she doesnt need to even mention the revised will to your dsis as its already been agreed.

Catza · 01/09/2023 08:38

GnomeDePlume · 31/08/2023 13:30

Without a doubt it is DM's money and decision. The problem for @GoodWillDrafting is that DM is saying one thing then doing another (even if only by doing nothing).

This is getting close to OP effectively being lied to by her DM.

So why is DM lying? Maybe it's to avoid having a difficult conversation with either DSis (I meant it when I said this was an early inheritance) or OP (this is a gift to DSis).

Either way I would lose a lot of respect for DM.

Show quote history

Totally agree that it must be difficult to maintain civil relationships in these circumstances. Luckily, I am the only child but we had a very similar situation with my ex's parents. The favouritism towards the second twin was quite painful to watch. Starting from Christmas presents where my ex would get a token book and my BIL a mountain of expensive sporting and gardening gear. The biggest blow was when they gave my ex 10k towards a flat deposit for the shared ownership property and 80k to his brother so that he could buy his freehold. They squirmed when pulled up on it and said they consider it a "family property" but when we asked to stay there for a few months (brother moved in with his girlfriend at her farm) he told us he wanted to charge us market rent... They were lovely people but I could never see them in the same way again after this.