…to want things formalised in DM’s will, or am I being grabby?

[GoodWillDrafting]

We’re a small, close family and we all get on very well, so the last thing I want is to create bad feeling. But…

My DM, a widow, has helped my DSis out financially a fair bit, whereas I’ve never wanted or needed any help since I stopped being a student over three decades ago.

The most recent bail-out involved a pretty hefty sum, which my DSis suggested be deducted from the amount she inherits from our mum’s estate, whenever that might be.
I have no problem with this, but I do want it to be formalised somehow, as I know how easily these things get forgotten/the details blur, and my mum won’t be around to make sure it happens.

I’ve also suggested that the previous lump sum my mum “lent” my DSis should be included (from earlier this year).

My own circumstances are that I’m fine for money now, but have a disabled child who’s likely to need more, rather than less care as she gets older, and I can see myself being unable to work at some point.

I mentioned the issue (again) to my mum yesterday, and she looked a bit panicky and said she didn’t want to upset my DSis or let her know we’d been talking about her finances.

My attitude is that all this stuff should be out in the open as it concerns us all, and if anyone’s going to be potentially pissed off, it’s me. I’d be happy for the three of us to sit down and discuss it, even though I find talking about money really awkward, especially as none of us enjoys talking about profiting from DM’s death!

Am I being unreasonable to want the money DM has lent/advanced DSis reflected in her will? Or am I being grabby?

NC for obvious reasons.

Many parents really end up feeling its fairest to even out their children financially, even if that means gifting the worst off sibling far more than the others.

I'd expect that actually they were hoping you'd sort of ignore/forget this help your Dsis has had and leave you equal shares in a will.

My parents have done this and tbh, i don't have a problem with it. Dsis needs the money much more than me - she has an important public servant job, that simply isn't as well paid as my corporate hustle. I don't want my own sister to be worse off than me due to some rigid notion of "fairness". She needs the help more.

Family dynamics can be weird.

The 'difficult' sibling is pandered to. The tolerant, reasonable sibling is punished.

My DM could be quite snippy and rude to me. She admitted that she took out her frustration with my younger DB on me. She was worried that if she spoke up to DB he would deny her access to his DCs whereas she knew I wouldn't so I got the brunt of it.

"The 'difficult' sibling is pandered to. The tolerant, reasonable sibling is punished."
@GnomeDePlume
This speaks volumes to me. It's only in later life that you can appreciate this was a fundamental part of your childhood. All these decades later the scars run very deep. Punished is the right word for it too. This goes on in my family to this day, and my mother is in her nineties now. I'm fascinated and repelled in equal measure that she continues to behave this way. But my walls are high and I've finally broken free of her and my sibling. They are welcome to each other.
How I would have loved a loving mother though - that's a source of deep sadness.

@GoodWillDrafting I think you have to do what you feel in your heart is right and have no regrets. You sound reasonable and sensible and thoughtful, I hope you can reach a resolution that sits well with you. I'm just sorry you've been put in this position - really it was for your sister to make sure these loans were recorded in the interest of fairness to you. That's the unfair part.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.

By your own admission your DM is capable and isn't scared of your DSIS. You think your DM doesn't want to be the villain but maybe she just doesn't want to change her will.
There are a lot of posters on here confusing money with love; and help with favouritism. They are different. Your DM can still love you but give you less money. She can see your DSIS needs more help just now and it still not make your DSIS the favourite.
It's such a shame that you were sanguine about the will and never expected much to be left over to inherit but now you're focusing so much on getting your 'equal' share of it, that you've started a thread about it. You can choose to go back to your previous position of 'wait and see and there probably won't be much'. Or you can tie yourself in knots trying to work out how to pressure your DM to change her will so you feel 'equal' with your DSIS. Have a long hard think about which will negatively impact your relationship with your DM more. She isn't going to be here forever . What do you want the final years of your relationship with her to be like?

That’s an interesting perspective, @ICanBuyMyOwnBooks . I do think being treated with equal consideration is important. I can’t understand why other people might not. My DSis doesn’t strictly “need” the money - if she did, I would be looking at the situation differently.

Unless one child has specific greater need then treating them differently financially is favouritism and it is understandable that the child treated less favourably is hurt by it.

Please don't think it's ok to do this with any support and inheritance you plan to leave to your children. You'll sew division between the children and hurt the less favourably treated in a way you can never take back, because you'll be dead at the time.

The non favourite will have to deal with your loss as well as the definitive evidence that they are less loved than their sibling. That will hurt terribly.

It's not grabby to point out treating one better than the other hurts. At least the parent can decide whether to deliberately hurt one of their children and face the impact of it, rather than do it 'accidentally'.

@HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow you are so completely wrong about everything you have posted towards me. And it's interesting how your projection based solely on your own thoughts has conjured situations that have no relevance. I only have one DC so they will not be fighting over inheritances. And in my own family, I was in the exact same situation as OP. That's why I'm sympathetic but also advising her to think about what matters most to her and what will sour her relationship with her DM most. I make no predictions about what that will be. It's just something she has to make peace with.

I think that this is true (but then I'm you in this situation). The problem in this type of family dynamic is that parents create a feckless child by favoritism - they treat them as the golden child, give them what they want (whilst the other child gets what they need) and scurry around making everyone else deal with the consequences of a golden child's actions. SHoot forward 20 years and the less favoured child gets pissed off of seeing this continue endlessly and sees the inequity of generosity as the favouritism it is and is understandably resentful

I think that this is exacerbated in the current scenario where the OP is the child in greater need due to a disabled DC and yet is expected to standby whilst the golden child in better circumstances is still rescued by her mother when all she has done is spend on inessentials like holidays etc instead of cutting her cloth.

OP could you have a fairly frank discussion with your mother about your worries for money in the future and explain that you've not come cap in hand in the past but watching her bailing your sister out over overspending on holidays etc is the final straw and you now feel you need to say how it makes you feel.

No intention to cast any aspersions towards you.

But the sentence that you wrote relating that someone can leave their children different amounts of money and still love them really resonates as I could disagree more. I don't believe anyone should believe you can treat one personal favourably and kid themselves that it doesn't demonstrate a difference in love. It's a hurtful thing to do.

It doesn't impact me as I'm expecting my parents to leave inheritance to their grandchildren rather than me. I think that's the right thing for our family. But if my folks chose to leave more to one of my siblings than me I would be hurt. If it happened the other way I would be appalled and correct the balance with my siblings.

I know we don't have rights to inherit but parents should own the impact of their decisions. Treating kids differently in such an obvious and final way is not a nice thing to do.

In my family my db has lent some money to our parents to be repaid from their estate eventually.
We have all signed a 'document' detailing the date and amount of the loan and stating that this amount will be repaid from the estate before the remainder is split between us under the terms of the will.
No idea if this would stand up in court but don't expect that ever to happen!

Several interesting perspectives here. My DM has been absolutely scrupulous in ensuring her generosity to me and my sibling is even handed. My DF died many years ago. My DM has been in the fortunate position of being able to help us both financially. She records everything she gives us, and I mean everything from relatively small cash birthday gifts to very significant sums for house purchases, in an old fashioned ledger. She is quite open about it and has showed it to us both. It might seem a bit hard headed to some but my sibling and I, who have a somewhat fractious relationship, know that there is going to be no argy bargy about who was given what and on what terms when she has gone. We will no doubt end up arguing about something else but not that.

@HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow you would be hurt by a discrepancy but that is personal to you.
When DFIL died, his entire inheritance went to one DC. He had five. Everyone was completely supportive and happy about it.
It's perfectly fine to say you equate equal inheritance with how much you are loved and any differences would cause difficulty for you. But it's not an universal truth. Families are all different. And there are many who don't determine love by a financial value.

I think favouritism/golden child over simplifies what can be happening.

A parent may feel guilty for having a favourite child - the easy one - and over-compensate because of this especially in adulthood when there are GCs and the less favoured DC wants less to do with the parent.

I have certainly seen this with my DM. I don't know if a lot of money has been given to DB2. DB1 thinks lots but I know DM (short arms, deep pockets) so probably not as much as DB1 thinks.

Yes you are right I do hold that opinion.

I don't know your families circumstances but hope that the 1 DC that inherited had specific needs or lesser opportunities in life that would warrant them being treated differently.

If not I would struggle to understand others being supportive of unwarranted favouritism.

I've seen a relative very hurt by their parent. The will was a final insult to a life time of being treated second best to their siblings. It hurt all of us on their behalf, it felt like another opportunity for a horribly unkind parent to abuse their child one last time. I can't ever imagine seeing it in a positive light. It was not about the money, it was about the message

I've got something similar going on with my own adult DC. I've tried to be transparent & honest with all of them about it.

Not unreasonable to ask your mum this, and... I would sell it to her as an action she can do now to help protect your future relationship with your sister. If the final split is meant to be uneven, have that known in advance by all, and very specifically, so that there can't be any dispute last minute, and everyone has accepted it and there won't be any hard feelings. You have a chance to have the situation sorted and settled now rather than become a problem in future. (ee)

Good luck!

ps: (ee) except except ... that probably your sis is going to get 'an advance' again, from your mum. Try not to be surprised about that.

If there is transparency and everyone involved understands the reasoning then there shouldn't be a problem.

The problems come when there isn't transparency or the departed relative has said one thing and done another. As potentially will happen in @GoodWillDrafting 's situation.

There might be good reasons, bad reasons, silly reasons but the relative is no longer around to explain.

With all due respect. That money is your mum's to do with as she wishes until she passes away and you inherit what ever she has put in a will. You can't dictate to your mum what she does with her own money. If she wants to help your sister out she has every right to.

We are in the same situation with DH and MIL sadly comments made about loans to SIL and it would be balanced out from the will have been denied by SIL and so we are in this situation trying to sort out the will. It looks like SIL is going to benefit as DH doesn't want to upset the relationship.........

Get it in writing is my advice, even if it is just notes to the will.

Idont know how it works in the UK and probablt depends on the sum involved, but from a legal/financial point of view can your DSIS sort this after the will? Like if she transfers money to you you will be liable for tax on it wont you? Which is less likely if you are receiving it as part of your inheritance. Easiest thing to do is have your mum say in her will something like the entire estate is to be added up and X amount held aside (this is equal to sums of money daughter A had advanced to her over the years), the remainder of estate to be divided in half for daughters A and B and B is to recieve all the sum held aside

DM's money is of course hers to do with as she wishes. But if DM and DSis are going to make references to the money DSis has had now will be balanced out later than the OP is right to get that clarified in a conversation all three of them and confirmed in writing. If that can't/won't happen then OP will be clear on the fact that it's all just smoke and mirrors and no one actually means what they are saying. OP can decide if/how that affects her toughts and behaviour as a consequence but the reality is she knows her sister's word, lovely as the sister is, is tenuous at best much as she doesn't like to admit it. As a small, close family they should just be honest with one another.

Not unreasonable to ask your mum this, and... I would sell it to her as an action she can do now to help protect your future relationship with your sister.

This just feels a bit like emotional blackmail though "if you don't leave me more than dsis I'll fall out with her and it'll be your fault"

Let's remember, op's DM's will is 50/50. Op wants to be left more than dsis due to "loans".

Op, if you need money (now), you need to ask for it. If you don't need it now, why should you need it more later, more than your dsis will? Also, am I right in saying she has more DC than you (which some grandparents might see as a logical reason to leave more).

I think you need to make your peace with this or risk alienating your dm by pushing too hard. 50/50 is arguably as fair as it gets.

Saying your dsis has a greater "earning potential" than you is a terrible argument to expect more than her in the Will; and op has referred to this "fact" multiple times in the thread.

Oh wow. If one of my daughters started worrying about " getting their fair share" of an inheritance I'd likely be leaving them a token £100. When my mum died a couple of years ago she left 20% of her house each to me and one brother and 60% of house and everything else to youngest brother.

Life isn't always "fair"

It's not unreasonable to want to sort it all out now, that's good sense yes. However it's unreasonable to tell your mum how to share it out and to insist she deduct the sum she gave your sister when she needed it. I'm one of five and I know full well my mum has helped us all in different ways and giving different amounts. I'm absolutely fine with that and don't expect my mum to keep a written note of who's had what, that sounds petty to me. Especially as you have said you don't need any financial help. It's your mum's will let her do what she wants. Our inheritance is not a right it's a gift and I can't stand when people think they're entitled to anything.

@Samlewis96 - life not always being fair is no excuse for us as parents actively using our estate to make it unfair.

You’re saying that in this situation, having blatantly favoured one child by giving them money, said that it can all be evened out between them after you’re dead (but without taking any steps to make sure that happens), if the non-favoured child said anything about feeling aggrieved you’d give them nothing but £100 as some sort of “fuck you” punishment.

that’s really messed up! If you’d do that to you’re own child…