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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think her her need for respect doesn’t trump mine?

243 replies

Tonightsthenight91 · 27/08/2023 10:11

Prefacing this by saying I know this isn’t the end of the world and it’s not a war but it’s just really getting on my tits if I’m honest.

I have a family member (let’s call her H) who is very very religious, married an equally religious man, and is raising equally religious kids. Fine, I respect that - our beliefs are different but that’s more than ok, I am actually deeply interested in other peoples religions and cultures and find it makes for interesting conversations 95% of the time.

however, I feel like my whole family feel like everyone should dance to her tune just because of her beliefs.

example: a family holiday has been proposed. H won’t be happy for me (an adult and a mother) to drink/get drunk, wear anything revealing such as a tie string bikini, swear, listen to non-secular music within her ear shot, watch your average TV with her in the room etc. and the rest of my family will expect me to tow the line “because I have to respect H”

H doesn’t respect or listen to my beliefs (which I don’t try and force on anyone or even bring up, it’s only if it comes up in conversation). Says my beliefs are witchcraft and a sin.

other examples are:

  • won’t come to family parties as she doesn’t want to be around alcohol
  • Has opinions on everyone’s clothing (her kids have been known in the past to say people should be ashamed for their short skirts)
  • censors photographs of teenagers in our family with emojis (e.g if they’re wearing a tight T-shirt she’ll put a big flower emoji over the chest area on her social media)
  • tells me she’ll pray for me and actively prays for me to “see the light” and open my heart. I don’t feel comfortable with this.
  • wont allow me to stay over with my partner as we’re not married but we’ve been together 12 years and have 2 kids (which is absolutely her right as it’s her home, but it kind of sets the undertone for other settings)
  • Thinks being gay is absolutely wrong and sinful and there’s no two ways about it. Despite us having gay people in the family whom she also prays for.
  • has very blatantly spoke about other religions in a less than acceptable way

Whilst I do respect her and her beliefs, AIBU to think she should let me be too? Why should I have to change how I behave just because her religion disapproves? Aside from religion, H as a person is funny, sporty, interesting and outgoing. I know none of what she says is through malice but I’m just feeling really irked at the thought of being censored on this holiday

OP posts:
category12 · 27/08/2023 14:06

CurlewKate · 27/08/2023 13:47

You absolutely don't need to "respect" her views if that means changing your behaviour. You do have to be polite. No more-no less.

I don't think that is enough when the rest of the family are pandering to H's views, It will just create the situation where OP is the bad guy for not following suit. It'd be fine if she was solely holidaying with H, they'd have to sort out some sort of compromise, but when it's a bigger group and OP will be the only hold out, it'll go badly for OP.

I think the only thing is not to go.

Pipsquiggle · 27/08/2023 14:06

Does your family member have a job?

I know some pretty religious people who sound like they have the same kind of beliefs as your family member. At work they have to behave /reign in their views as they know it would be against a corporate inclusion policy and in the worst cases illegal.

Do the rest of your family realise that if she was like this at work she'd be in huge trouble?

aloris · 27/08/2023 14:11

It sounds like your family tiptoe around her (agreeing to all her conditions) because they don't want her to fall back into her destructive ways. But maybe she has just switched one form of toxic behavior (drugs or whatever she did before) for another (controlling her whole family in the name of religion).

Unless someone is forcing you to go on the holiday, like an abusive husband or something, just don't go. If you decide to go because you want the family holiday, then, I don't know, it sounds like you're willing to choose the restrictive environment so you can have the holiday. Do you see what I mean? I get that H is being controlling but the rest of the family is giving in to her. If they all just ignored her "rules" then I doubt she could get away with it. I understand that the family's bizarre definition of "respect" is the issue here - they are saying they have to respect her religion but they don't respect your right not to be subjected to her religious control. It's sort of like they would rather not have you on vacation than that they risk not having her on it (eg if she decided not to go because too many bikinis or because people said they would drink responsibly but wouldn't teetotal on vacation). If you skipped this vacation because you didn't want to be controlled by her, then maybe next vacation they wouldn't put up with her controlling ways because they would want you along. It's hard to predict.

clownschoolclown · 27/08/2023 14:13

I wouldn't be bending over backwards to adjust my holiday to accommodate a judgemental bigot.

It'd be a nope from me. I'd rather spend my money on a separate holiday where I wouldn't have to walk on eggshells.

Is it a SIL?

CranfordScones · 27/08/2023 14:20

"The rules of your religion are there for your guidance, not mine"

Repeat until the message gets through.

Pipsquiggle · 27/08/2023 14:22

I understand that you would like to go on a family holiday, however, this one person cannot dictate how other's act.

I would be clear that if you went you would be acting 'normally' and not to a bigot's standards.

Viviennemary · 27/08/2023 14:24

Sounds like your need to avoid too much contact with them. But I don't approve of people getting drunk and wouldn't want to be on holiday with somebody who drunk to excess.

YeahIsaidit · 27/08/2023 14:27

I'd go and do/wear/drink whatever you wish, the second she starts her insane rambling about how sinful any of it is, remind her that God loves everyone despite their "faults" and carry on as you were. Pandering to that bullshit furthers the belief that they're right

SauronsArsehole · 27/08/2023 14:30

Jehovah’s Witness I presume? It’s so ingrained there’s little room to manoeuvre or compromise.

yes. Just no. Don’t go on the holidays.

Book separate accommodation if you want to go.
plan sporty and cultural activites during the day. Eat lunch together. But have solo family meals or Bar solo of an evening so.

DueyCheatemAndHow · 27/08/2023 14:32

That's not being a Christian that's being a cunt.

AliceOlive · 27/08/2023 14:34

I think she sounds annoying but I wouldn’t want you drunk and swearing all the time on my holiday, either. Also, is someone saying a quick prayer before a meal really that annoying? That doesn’t fit with how you’ve described yourself. It sounds like you both have rather large personalities.

But what are the accommodations? Can’t you stay in different places and just meet up? That way you can get drunk all you like afterward.

MoreThanEnoughSoFar · 27/08/2023 14:35

I would honestly stay away, mostly because I would be afraid to have my children influenced by her bigotry. I don't know if you have boys or girls but it can't be healthy for anyone to be exposed to a religious nut who censors tight t-shirts on pictures.

Mariposista · 27/08/2023 14:43

No way is this normal.
One of my best friends is a vicar. She wears swimwear on holiday, listens to normal music, does sport, has downtime, respects people of other faiths. I am Christian too and when we are together we talk about other things besides God!

H is an indoctrinated bigot.

Gwenhwyfar · 27/08/2023 14:49

She lives her life according to her rules and you according to yours. You don't have to pander to her. Otoh I think there's nothing you can do if she wants to pray for you.

CurlewKate · 27/08/2023 14:54

"Otoh I think there's nothing you can do if she wants to pray for you"

I would very publicly ask her not to.

JudgeRudy · 27/08/2023 14:56

I wouldn't go on this holiday. Holidays are for relaxing and for fun. This sounds like it'll be neither. Tbh I'd be just as irritated by your family who pander to her. Whilst I don't think she actually gives out instructions etc I can imagine your mum giving you the side eye as you tuck into food before 'grace'. I think it's rude to expect everyone else to stop but if everyone goes along with it it makes you look arsey if you make a point of starting to eat your dinner.
If you otherwise enjoy spending holidays/events with your family why don't you arrange the next meet up. Make it clear it's going to be a relaxed affair, so if it's a BBQ stress that dress is relaxed (anything goes) and they'll be copious alcohol. If it's a holiday stress the resort allows discrete top less bathing and its an all inclusive bar. Everyone's invited but tell her you realise it m8ght not be her thing so you're not offended if she opts out but she's more than happy to join you all and there's no expectation that she joins in.

YouOKHun · 27/08/2023 15:06

I’m bisexual myself. She doesn’t know this in fairness

It’s bad news when you have to conceal who you are to manoeuvre around someone else’s bigotry. I’m assuming her cult-like behaviour is the lesser evil as she formally had serious problems with something else, so the family feel that the current addiction is at least safer? It really sounds like the all or nothing rule following required in religious and none religious closed groups. If so it doesn’t work to be openly critical of it but it is important to be honest about who you are and let them have the problem of squaring the reality of people they care about versus the rule book they’ve swallowed, rather than you all carrying the burden of concealing yourself and changing your behaviour to accommodate her.

BravoMyDear · 27/08/2023 15:10

Tonightsthenight91 · 27/08/2023 10:28

I agree, it is bigotry. We’ve clashed a couple of times about it over dinner when she’s sat saying how much she fears for our gay relative and how sad it is and how she will just continue to pray for his repentance or whatever it’s called

Show quote history

I would not be spending ANY time with this person and I certainly wouldn’t be exposing my children to her nonsense (and I’m a Christian)

SlightlyJaded · 27/08/2023 15:10

OP there is born again Christian church near me. I've been to a couple of services because a friend I respect is a member and asked me to go with her when she was having a hard time. It's all happy clappy and 'youths playing guitar' on the surface. Lots of people touching each other's shoulders and praying for them with big smiles on their faces (I found that quite uncomfortable) but both times, when I listened hard to the sermon - it was a quite 'fire and brimstone'.

A large percentage of the congregation are people who are ex addicts/drinkers/come form other dysfunctional backgrounds - and are desperately looking for a new way to live/a place to belong / a replacement for their addictions, and nearly all of them are quite evangelical about it.

The bitching that goes on between them is like nothing I've ever heard. Judgy, spiteful and totally un-Christian. But as long as they singing with their hands in the air and donating to the tombola, it's all fine because they are marvellous Christians.

I suspect H's church might be a bit like that?

In your shoes, I would not go, but I would also take her aside to tell her why. Ask her to talk to you about her church because you are a bit baffled by it. Have lots of bible quotes about tolerance and forgiveness on hard - and ask her to explain how her judgy, rude, bigoted, intolerance equates to being a 'good Christian' because you're frankly, confused and her views and outspoken disapproval of you all, has forced you to pull out of the holiday.

PurpleChrayne · 27/08/2023 15:12

As the strictly religious ones, they should be the ones to avoid situations that don't chime with their beliefs. It shouldn't be you who has to accommodate them.

My DH, I, and children keep kosher, and DH and I don't do mixed dancing. If there's a wider family event with non-kosher food or mixed dancing, we just won't go. We wouldn't dream of asking others to accommodate our beliefs.

OMG12 · 27/08/2023 15:18

She’s a fundamentalist. She has no desire to understand others view points. It’s fine for her to have whatever beliefs she wants but she has no right to dictate your life.

Either state that there will be no judgement on this holiday or you will not be going.

Playingintheshadow · 27/08/2023 15:18

No way would I go on that holiday!!!

TheWayoftheLeaf · 27/08/2023 15:32

I just wouldn't cater to her and would do what I wanted. If she has an issue with it she's welcome to move away as it's her beliefs not yours that are making her offended.

GalaApples · 27/08/2023 15:32

OP I am a Christian and can tell you that her beliefs though sincere are closer to those of a cult than true Christianity. Where is the love and following the teachings of Jesus? It sounds as though she is misguided or has been brainwashed by some dubious sect.
Your family's wish to "respect" her beliefs at any cost must be either because they fear losing her to something worse such as addiction? Or because she is the golden child who can do no wrong? If the latter I would not go on the holiday as you will be the one in the wrong, whatever. If the former, talk to your sister about her beliefs (before the holiday maybe) as SlightlyJaded suggests above, baffled and asking for her take on them. "Love thy neighbour as thyself", "Love one another as I have loved you" and "Judge not that you be not judged" (all said by Jesus himself) may be useful to point out gently to her.

ArtimisGame · 27/08/2023 15:35

My “MIL” is a bit like this although she’s softened after a while. She’s Anglican and attends the local C of E church. Technically not “MIL” as I’m not married to her son. When I became pregnant she let me and partner sleep in the same bed, but we had been in a relationship for 10 years at that point. Sometimes I hear her muttering something when I wear revealing clothing. She’s hard work and it has been difficult over the years but now I am stronger and more assertive.