Threat to take kids home from holiday

[Anothernamethesamegame]

Second night in to a holiday and the kids (7/9 yr old) behaviour has been fairly difficult. Not absolutely horrendous but difficult. It’s never that easy. They are both quite hyperactive kids, both clash a lot.

husband, who always struggles managing bed time, has struggled with their bed time tonight. They are in the same room, which is always difficult.

He just threatened them with taking them home tomorrow. Came down and said he plans to actually drive them back some way in the car. I’ve no idea what he hopes to achieve, other than hyping the situation up and making it an awful day for us all. I said “ well what if they continue being poorly behaved” and he said then he’d just drive them all the way home and stay home.

How the hell do I deal with this. Obviously it is massively over the top and he is making the situation 100 times more tense in my opinion. How do I approach this without seemingly like I am undermining him….which he feels I always do?

They are 7 and 9, far too old to behaving like such brats. I have a 7yo and don't recognise this at all. Them hitting each other is not ok too. I would honestly take them back because they are behaving so awful. At 7 and 9 there shouldn't be bedtime issues, they aren't babies !

When my two misbehave I divide and conquer. I separate them as they rub each other up the wrong way. If they sleep in the same room, the younger one goes bed first and as they settle and drop off the older one is told to quietly go to bed. The older one will be winding down with a book/magazine.
Agree with they can stay up late on holiday. Mine do, but when it’s bedtime it’s exactly that.
Tomorrow ask them if they have packed their bags ready to go home. Hopefully they’ve had a think about their behaviour. Maybe sit them down and explain what is expected of them whilst on holiday.

Can you rearange the rooms? Maby as your brother to sleep with your DS and DD has brother's room? Or put one in your room with you or DH and the other parent with the other child?

I'd let him drive them home first though, I'm sure they will try to get him to turn the car around, how he reacts is up to him.

Your husband's strategy is perfect.
Back him up 100% but discuss the details.
Insist that neither of you will become angry, shouty or abusive.

Be calm, take unruly kids all the way home and stay there if you must.

There has to be a point where you mean business and taking 45 minutes to stay quiet in their room is unacceptable.
I think your kids are immune to shouts and threats so show them the real deal. Live up to your logical consequence.

Start to have real consequences for behaviour.
It might mean that you suffer a bit to begin with but you also have the chance to NOT suffer the 45 minute bed times and children who do not take you at your word.

Separately, your husband might benefit from an anger management or calm parenting course.
Separately rerward your children for their good behaviour by noticing it and thanking them.

Thank you @PrinceHaz. That is exactly what I think too. I just didn't want to say the words

"... it sounds like you have a husband problem...",

but it really does sound like if he wasn't there, mum, the children, uncle and the grandparents, would all be having a much nicer and relaxing holiday.

Dear @Anothernamethesamegame when you do get home I think that you and your husband could do with some marriage guidance counselling, and if your husband won't go then you should still go.

However, unless your husband is willing to put an enormous effort into changing his behaviour and the thought processes that lead to his very unreasonable reactions, then I think you need to be prepared OP for your eyes to be truly opened, and for you to realise that not only are you not in love with this manchild anymore, but you are actually finding it difficult to even like him.

I wonder what your visceral reaction was to what I just said OP? (Rhetorical question)

Good luck OP in making the right choice for you and your very dear children. I know from quite bitter experience how hard that can be, and unfortunately many years later I still don't know if I made the correct choice, but I loved and still do love my husband, so I partly didn't want to ruin his life either, but it is a very long time since I could say I was happy with my life. My now adult children are all struggling in their own ways too, but other things are at play there as well. Maybe life is just bloody hard for most people?

Here here. He needs some parenting lessons! He’s clearly clueless.

Have you tried rewarding good behaviour instead of threats of punishment? Find their currency and then bribe them! Tell them that you’ll do something you know they’ll love if their bedtime behaviour is appropriate. Since you’re on holidays, some amusement rides or an arcade or whatever is on offer.

Also I’d suggest putting them in different bedrooms. You put one to bed, your DH deals with the other. Brush teeth, put pyjamas on, read for 10 mins, kiss and cuddle and LEAVE! 15 mins tops. Anybody reappears, walk them back to bed without talking to them, as often as it takes.

If your husband takes them home, or halfway home then brings them back, it will never ever be forgotten. You want holidays to be memorable for good reasons. Not traumatic ones like this.

Going home from Holiday like this is completely disproportionate and unfair. You shouldn't follow through on such an out of proportion punishment, just because your husband is an angry asshole. What does that teach anyone?

Just imagine for years to come - remember that time dad ended our holiday after a day, just because we were being naughty at bedtime? Horrible.

He needs to sort his shit out and find a way to leave the situation rather than exploding at the children. He needs serious work on himself.

What on earth do your family think of your husbands behaviour? I dread to think..

Op, you sound like a loving caring mum. There's a lot of shitty comments on this thread so I hope its not too upsetting for you. You're already under a lot of stress with his behaviour.

I think it’s a bit unrealistic to expect an adult who is on holiday with their in laws and whose co-parent is setting up expectations of 45 minutes of accompanied podcast listening at bedtime for misbehaving, squabbling 7 and 9 year olds not to lose their shit tbh.

You have low standards. OP doesn’t expect her husband to be in there for 45 minutes - she just expects him to do bedtime without losing his shit.

Both OP and her DH’s parenting have led to the children behaving the way they do- which isn’t that untypical of hyperactive children excited on holiday and sharing a room for the first time. So it’s not only OPs fault that her children take so long to settle- and their behaviour is not an excuse for her husband to be a bully to them and have an adult tantrum. How can OPs husband tell their kids to behave and control themselves, when he can’t even manage that himself? It’s hypocritical and ineffective parenting.

I'm wondering if DH is short-tempered because he lives in a world where OP is so soft that 45 minutes for a 9-yr old to go to bed is normal, as is hitting a sister?
Neither parent is in the right: they need to sit and have a calm "What shall be do this evening?" chat to pre-empt all this.
"I can stay with you an hour, and tomorrow we'll do a walk and some reading, or stay with you 10 minutes, and we'll go to the waterpark" (bit of a glib example, but you get the idea).
I'd also consider the option mentioned of 1parent/1child per room for a few days if it really is that big of a thing: just go for the quiet life and have a nice time with your family.

The real issue here is your dh is losing control of his anger, and it is scaring your children. Everything is escalating too far each time.

It is frightening for a child when a parent loses their temper.

Agree strategies together before you go on holiday/ out for the day. He doesn’t unilaterally get to issue threats in fits of rage.
Agree how you approach the issues you know may come up in advance, stick to them in a united but calm way. Look out for pressure points.

Going forward don’t accept holiday arrangements that you know won’t work for your family, no matter how tempting. No one has a good holiday if the set up doesn’t work and it all becomes stressful.

I hope you enjoy the rest of the holiday.

It just feels like a very harsh punishment for fairly annoying but standard difficult kid behaviour.

I don’t think sitting with a 7/9 year old, for 45 mins at bedtime, while they hit each other, is standard, tbh.

He’s overreacted, but if this was my life every night, I can see why he might have had enough.

He needs to calm down but you all need a better bedtime routine

I don't get why you are even putting yourself through this bedroom routine while on holiday! There's no school in the morning and there's no routine to have to stick to. They are old enough to stay up later, and fall asleep when they're shattered.... and hopefully then everyone will get more of a lie in in the mornings.

"Dh i dont want to undermine you so we need to get you out of this threat without actually ending the holiday. I suggest we talk to the children say we are staying for the holiday as not fair on us or grandparents and uncle but we are not happy about bedtime behaviour so no switch for the rest of the day."

You've made a rod for you own back wtf do you sit with them to sleep at home. Story kiss night night. Pub this in place at home once you're back. FFS

Punishment parenting doesn't work. If a parent is being that Draconian it's about their ego because they've lost it and they don't know what to do so they're saving face by being the big boss.

I have never done time outs or taken stuff away from my son. He's also really well behaved( but he is also autistic and a rule follower so maybe that works in our favour,). Not quite sure what I do exactly for discipline, but I've usually never had to do more than a serious voice and a calm but firm instruction. I talk to him a lot.

Found this article which I think is good. https://www.parentingforbrain.com/discipline-vs-punishment/

Modelling the behaviour you want is key. Eg If you want them to be kind to each other, you and your husband need to model that behaviour.

My exh complains sometimes that Ds can be rude or grumpy. DS is not rude and grumpy around me. Exh is often rude and grumpy 🤷‍♀️

Seperate rooms tonight one in with each parent might be helpful either to make them settle or as a consequence if they like being in same room. Big chat about it is everyone's holiday and we all need sleep not fair to play up at bedtime. Strategy such as lie still and count backwards from 100 or 1000 if they are struggling to switch off.

Absolutely ridiculous sitting with a 7 and NINE year old every night till they fall asleep. I don't blame your dh for being so angry. You have created a ridiculous situation by being 'soft' and now they are behaving terribly.

I was wondering why there were so many comments about it the 45 minutes bed time. To at comment was a typo. I meant I DONT sit with them for 45 minutes at home. At home they have their own rooms and are left and settle alone. 45 minutes was for the first night of the holiday in the shared room.

When toddlers are behaving badly, the advice is to leave after warning of consequences. Why can't big bloody 9yo be treated the same? I would be furious if I'm on holiday and my 9yo did that. And being on holiday isn't a big bad scary thing that they need time to 'settle'.

and they were fine in the car.

So they do know how to behave. If money is at stake, they can do it.

They are 7 and 9…

I don’t think you need to be as militant as he’s been but I also think you need to be harder than they’re expecting from you.

Thank you for all of the comments (well most). I will be reading through and having a think. I’m not sure overall it’s helped given the range of answers are so different. From “leave the kids alone it’s holiday and normal behaviour, just let stay up late” to “your husbands angry because your a shit parents who set up crap bedtimes” to “let him drive them home and relax on holiday yourself”. I suppose that’s AIBU though isn’t it!

I think I’ll pick out the comments/suggestions that I think will work and be doable for us today. Thank you for those comment that were helpful and gentle even if critical.

Which is what I disagree with

It does matter and if the punishment is wrong then it's wrong to follow through

Yea I don’t sit with them every night. It was 45 minutes for the first night. It was a type when I wrote I Do, instead of Don’t sit with them every night. 45 minutes was for our first night of holiday.

why on earth have I created this scenario? My bedtimes are fine. When the kids are with me standard punishments/rewards manage their behaviour well and they have standard behaviour for their age. It’s with dad things explode. How is that MY fault?

It must not be a threat. It must be something you are prepared to go through, no 'second chances'. So if behaviour is as bad tonight, tomorrow you go home.

Or you apologise for what was said, making it clear how upsetting their behaviour was whilst doing so.

Painful it may be, but it may set a standard that reduces the difficulties you have in future years.