Is it actually me not them? Kids and screens

[Goforththenorth]

Just got back from a lovely holiday at a family friendly hotel abroad. Exclusively British/Irish clientele.

I couldn’t believe the amount of device time I saw that didn’t include the airport/plane - tablets, phones and hand held consoles. All the time - poolside, at meal times, everywhere I turned there were kids plugged into devices, a lot of the time with headphones.

My DC are neurodivergent (one certainly, suspect the other is too) and when occupied on screens, they’re quiet and don’t bother us, so I can see the appeal (I watched a film in relative peace on the return flight because they were playing games on screens the whole time).

But…I couldn’t believe it. I purposely don’t take screens to meals out in the UK because, maybe especially because my DC are the way they are, I think it helps to teach them that sometimes they have to wait, a bit of patience. I always take colouring, stickers or books and magazines. My eldest with ADHD and DCD really struggles with sitting with zero to occupy him, I’d say it’s nigh on impossible. So it really does take a lot of energy to occupy him while he’s waiting for food to arrive in a restaurant without a screen. We only go to family friendly places. Can’t say if this helps as he’s not great at controlling the ants in his pants if we’re not there to help him control them. But knowing him, having a tablet at a meal once would be a slippery slope to having one every single time.

On holiday, it was an all inclusive buffet so there was none of that waiting for food - DC were in heaven able to get up and help themselves without waiting. Still everywhere I saw kids plugged into their screens whilst eating. Same at the pool, my DC love the water so are happy for a good while, but if they had the option of a tablet or console poolside there would’ve been a lot less pool time.

But seeing as we were in the minority, I’m wondering if it’s in fact me that is old fashioned, too strict with screens, and need to relax a bit? My DM was VERY strict. My DC get what I feel is a lot of screens at home, but I have to control it. I’m wondering if that’s a problem in itself, if I was more relaxed would they want it less in the end. They are definitely not super well behaved, so it’s not like I think I’m winning at parenting!

YANBU - it’s unusual for DC to be on screens so much on holiday

YABU - it’s you, you tech dinosaur, get with the times and relax about screens

Ds rarely plays games on his iPad (odd bit of roblox) but it’s ideal for him for researching his latest obsession (either via kindle or online) or looking at maps.

looking at maps of the world is strangely one of the activities which best regulates him!

I'm not a parent yet but it astounded/horrified me the number of kids (various ages from toddler to teenager) who were glued to their phone for the entirety of the meal when we were on holiday recently

Even more annoying was the fact they were allowed to use said device without headphones, therefore inflicting their annoying you tube video etc on everyone else. So rude. There was one next to us who spent the whole meal on his phone watching a you tube video, loudly, without headphones. He'd go to the buffet to restock his plate and each time before he even sat down the show would be restarted. The person with him briefly half heartedly tried to make him turn it down, he gave her back chat, briefly turned it down then progressively turned it back up I wanted to take the bleeding thing off him!

Saw a family where all were on their phones, not talking bar the boy who I'd put about 12 years old. Also a dad who was on his phone across from his daughter who had headphones and was on her iPad the whole time. Probably about 7 years old or so?

Then the flight home had to listen to a toddlers iPad game for the entire 10 hours because the volume was blaring and again, no headphones or muted game oh no we had the whole shebang at full volume, over and over - from the child friendly voice shrieking "let's do that again" or "it's so high" if there wasn't speech there was the tinkling of coins, I thought I was going to go insane. I get it's a long flight but either make her wear headphones or have it on mute.

Was waiting to get off and the final straw for my patience was when the iPad was slammed into my back, I shouted ouch but parents offered no apology. The damn iPad then followed us all the way to baggage reclaim, the game continuing to emit

By contrast in front of them was a young boy who just watched the in flight entertainment, didn't hear a peep out of him

I remember when I was a child I was expected to sit nicely at the table and communicate if we were out for a meal as a family, entertainment was a stuffed toy, colouring or a book

Maybe I don't "understand" as I don't yet have children but it was frightening the reliance on devices.

I understand parents need respite too but I feel it's rude to inflict your child's shows or games on people around you - if they are to be allowed them, headphones or mute should be used!

Very timely thread I was thinking of starting one myself!

I used to judge folk for the same back when I only had one child and she wld happily sit at the table and not cause a fuss or scene. I'd be all seriously can't believe folk have tablets out at every mealtime. How embarrassing.

Then I had DD2 and yes I do result to giving her my mobile to watch some cartoons while we are eating on holiday. It keeps her occupied and less likely to be screaming her head off and causing a scene. I wouldn't be able to take her to a restaurant without it as everyone wld just stare and probably be thinking why did they come, they are ruining our meal.

My kids never really used their tablets or watched any Television on holiday though so the screen time was pretty small overall.

There’s also the sedentary aspect of constant screens -we have an obesity problem now, can’t see it improving.

Yes parents of you want to let kids watch YouTube then fully support but with headphones, no one else should have to hear that. But the jjudgement you still get as a parent when you say you me child is glancing at an I pad is horrific

Not in the least. DS (7) would play on the switch all day every day if left to it.

What helps us is having "relaxed" days rather than times. If he knows it's not a Switch day he will be okay with that much quicker than if he is waiting for the time to come and basically can't occupy himself other than to ask "how many minutes"!

We take the iPad to restaurants much more on holiday. It gives DH and me a chance to relax and chat rather than be the entertainment. Exception is family/group holidays where there are more people to entertain everyone's DC.

We also take comics and books to "non screen" meals out by ourselves though and tbh I'd say they're equally antisocial, DD in particular will be engrossed and not bother to so much as look at the rest of us.

I had this all holiday. Not just on the plane which is understandable but at mealtimes right from the time they sat down and while they were eating, while they were IN the pool with the device on the side, during a beautiful yacht excursion. And usually without headphones so the noise was really annoying.

Wish airplanes and restaurants would enforce headphones/mute at least

They're on holiday. They and their parents are relaxing.

Also you were at an all-inclusive where the whole point is that the kids can go and do their own thing, get their own food, and give the parents a break.

No I'm not surprised at all. Let people do their own thing. They'll be back at school in a couple of weeks.

That's not ADHD works. That is astoundingly ignorant and rude..

The lack of headphones makes it more than a difference in parenting choices, 3 hour train trip recently, two young children sat next to each other across the aisle from me and one row up, parent sat opposite me across a table next to them across the aisle. As the train pulled out she pulled out one of those big multi packs of haribo and a phone, asking them if they want to watch blippi. 3 hours of Blippi later, so loud I could hear it over my own headphones - couldn't read the book I'd planned to because I couldn't concentrate on it. Several bags of haribo later save they were also squealing and shouting along, I had a banging headache. It was awful

On hols at the moment and it’s noticeable how much less the locals use screens.

WRT ND- i thought on another thread a poster had said that screens aren’t a regulation thing?

Also why are people putting up with loud volume in public transport? Either ask for it to be turned down or start playing porn/slasher films with loads of swearing at full volume.

Adults playing things on their phones at full volume are more of an issue than kids on London transport TBH

Our kids are ND (ASD and ADHD), although I have no idea if it would be different if they weren't as I have nothing to compare to. While we don't need screens for meals out generally, we did use them at the pool occasionally on our last holiday. The children had literally hours bombing about outside and playing in the pool. We let them zone out on a sun lounger with a kindle for short periods so they could rest and regulate (especially as one was dropping naps at the time). It meant we didn't have to pack up and go back to the room to allow them quiet time. I'm sure if we'd sat and read a load of books to them at the poolside someone would have popped up on here complaining about the performance parenting! I do agree that we probably have an over-reliance on screens in a general way, but they can be beneficial in some ways. I mean, how many adults poolside we're chilling on their phones? Perhaps that's a bigger issue.

@Goforththenorth You asked if people's kids self regulate if they're more relaxed with tablet usage. Ironically my almost 2 year old does, my almost 4 year old (suspected ND) doesn't. He would literally sit on it 24/7 if I let him. As it stands we've set up family link, screen time limits and it automatically locks at a certain time in the evening. He gets a maximum of 2hr a day but can use them as he chooses.

We would allow screens at all the times you've commented on except whilst eating, but obviously only 2hr a day in total. We also use them whilst waiting for food in the restaurant. We originally took the approach you did, sticker books, crayons, chatting etc. It just made for miserable restaurant times to the point that I refused to go cause I didn't want to pay for the experience of not being able to relax for a single second. I do plan to remove the tablets from the restaurant food wait as the kids get older though. Eldest DS is almost at the age where you can engage him in a sustained conversation now, so over the next year I anticipate us removing the tablet from restaurant visits but we'll see how it goes.

In terms of turning them off, for example if my eldest is on it at home and it's dinner time, we explain that his tablet needs a rest cause it's dinner time and then we lock it through family link. If we do that then he accepts it easily. Trying to get him to turn it off himself or forceably removing it results in a meltdown though. During the day if we feel like he's doing too long of a stretch on it then we'll say similar "I think your tablet is getting tired now and needs a break soon". As he gets older we'll change our explanation of why we need to take breaks from devices to do other things.

We also have a morning routine drawn up and he's not allowed to use his tablet until he's completed everything on the routine (dressed, breakfast, teeth brushed, sun creamed etc). Because watching/playing on his tablet is the last thing on the routine.

So yeah... In conclusion I think YABU. But I also respect your right to parent your kids how you think is best, there's nothing wrong with what you're doing if that works for you.

You do you and we'll do us. The only thing I find unacceptable is screens without headphones.

Meals out on holiday are the one time we do actually allow screens at the table for some of the time. During the day, we're swimming, on the beach, doing minigolf or out and about. But whereas meals at home last for 20 minutes max - put food on table, call DC, DC come, they eat food, we chat, meal over - on holiday we can be in a restaurant for a couple of hours and waiting for our food for 30 minutes at busy times. We do take puzzle books and games as well, but when we've had a chat and exhausted those, we're perfectly happy for our DC to watch something quietly while we finish our meal. DC is usually exhausted and up past their bedtime anyway, so it's downtime for them, just in a different location. I don't really see it as that different from at home... my older DC has some TV time before bathtime at home while I'm getting the baby to bed.

I quite like Blippi for the educational aspects, but it gets very grating, very quickly.

I agree on lack of headphones. Completely unacceptable. My 5yo knows that "I'm the only person who is allowed to hear my tablet" on a train or a plane.

Oh god, there has to be headphones. Or on silent.

At all times, no exceptions

WRT ND- i thought on another thread a poster had said that screens aren’t a regulation thing?

Not all ND kids are the same.

I read a lot on holiday and treat dc’s switch like my book. It would be rude to get a book out at dinner with my family but it’s fine if having an afternoon chill out at the bar or sitting on the balcony. I wouldn’t take them to the pool as it’s not safe to leave them unattended or where they can get wet.
we take family card games with us to the bar and I have activity books available if we’re stuck anywhere.

Both of mine are ND - and in the past when we've gone out for family meals (particularly at venues selected by MIL - cos me and DH would pick places with quick service but she doesn't) - yes, we've taken the kids' iPads and headphones because the alternative is that me and DH spend the entire time waiting for food tag-teaming taking bored kids outside, while MIL simpers about loving her family meal out.

Now they're that bit older (10 and 11) - we don't need that in the same way and, despite what MN likes to maintain, they've developed the ability to engage in mealtime conversation and to act like relatively civilised (we have the odd lapse) members of society. DD2's particular source of joy now is getting a crappy restaurant activity sheet and two crayons to complete (seriously - how do they ever expect two crayons to cut the mustard for a spot of colouring in). But there's that difficult in-between part when they're beyond the toddler "walk them around outside until the meal arrives" and pre-teen "able to understand and relatively behave" parts where they're a bit too big and loud to easily wrangle and if headphones and a screen helps for that - then it helps.

As for on holiday - mine can be screen obsessed at home - but give them a pool and there's no way they'd choose an iPad over that! Likewise they'll like to read tonnes of books (but I'd possibly take them on an iPad just for baggage limits considering DD1 will take 4 hardback hefty tomes on an overnight stay given half the chance). I've been relatively laid back about screens over the years, but with some very clear boundaries in terms of screens being locked at certain times of day, no screens overnight in bedrooms etc - and the novelty is dying down in general as they're getting older, probably because I've not made a huge thing about it and because of the kids' personality. The pandemic however did NOT help - moving these kids entire social interaction onto screens for extended periods of time and then expecting them to suddenly go back to "normal" - and judging those who didn't do that in sufficient time... not particularly fair.

I can only speak for my DS but for him his iPad is undoubtedly an aid to help him regulate. In some situations it is by far the best aid to help him regulate as it means he is sat calm and quietly which some of his other regulatory behaviours don’t. It also means I can perhaps enjoy a full meal sometimes rather than shovelling food in to get out as quickly as possible.

because of the way DS uses his iPad it can also be a good conversation starter around what he is looking at.

I know plenty of other people who have ND children, or who are ND themselves who benefit from tech use at some level. For others it will undoubtedly be a problem. Like anything there won’t be a one size fits all answer and it’s often trial and error as to what works for you and your family.

(for clarity though sound off or headphones should be compulsory)

Apologies if I came across as rude. I do think screens can contribute to bad behaviour and not being able to concentrate - just like eating food with lots of colours and additives. If it happens alot it could contribute to a diagnosis of ADHD (if borderline ) I would have thought?

You thought wrong.