To think there should be a freedom project for men?

[Lilolilibet]

I encouraged my friend (a bloke who is a victim of rather horrific domestic abuse) to do the freedom project. I knew there was a version for men.

On looking closer it turns out that the men's version is to help them curb their abusive behaviours. Doubtless much needed but where is the help for men who are also victims?

It is off putting to apply for help and discover an assumption that you're the perpetrator because you're not a woman. I fully understand it's men's fault that this is the way it works but it's hard on the men who are also victims. Shouldn't there be some acknowledgement of their position too?

The female equivalent to a Cocklodger is a FannyParker and I've seen plenty of those . Basically use a man financially and emotionally blackmail them then either kick them out or move on when they find someone " better " it works both ways .

the major point is that if we say "men are..." the immediate response is NAMALT. Which is fair (but nobody ever says ALL MEN)

But if a woman is violent, say a husband is killed by a wife, then suddenly she is representative of all women and their is no bloody gainsaying that because it gets all "but what about da MENZ"

Yes, individuals can be absolute shits. But men as a class have more power and options on the whole than women as a class. So they should be quids in for fundraising and support, because men often support men because they're men rather than because they are good at what they're doing, and some women do that too.

OP - i hope your friend has found the pointers posted by pp useful and is getting some support

Trying to say I'm wrong by continuing to prove my point 🤣

I've even provided statistics that show men are more likely to kill themselves because if DV, less likely to report it and that even then there's a significant number of male victims who do report and yet "women have to worry about it more"

DV is a massive issue for everyone. Women are a risk to men. Toxic masculinity is bad for everyone. We need to acknowledge this and do better. And not dismiss how we can harm men and perpetuate toxic masculine ideals ourselves by acting like women can't sometimes be physically abusive or acting like men's abuse is a minor problem

Oh and I bet if men did try and set up a network akin to that for women they wouldn't be lauded. They'd be mocked, mostly by other men, but there'd be a small subsect of women who'd accuse them of trying to "steal" women's thunder etc.

No it isn’t. Some posters are dismissive, effectively saying “help yourselves, it’s not my problem”, and a fair few are being sarcastic with that. But no, its been a different thread.

I do understand the people saying it’s not women’s jobs to help men. I think that view doesn’t separate the individual in need from the societal issues that make it hard for them to get help.

Women are a risk to men

Bullshit. On the whole, men are a risk to women.

The large majority of defendants in domestic abuse-related prosecutions in the year ending March 2020 were recorded as male (92%) and the majority of the victims recorded as female (77%, compared with compared with 16% who were male). (ONS, 2020C). Women's Aid

Toxic masculinity is bad for everyone. We need to acknowledge this and do better.

This is not women's problem to solve. Men need to do better and get their house in order.

Your post is the same old male desire to blame women.

Oh and I bet if men did try and set up a network akin to that for women they wouldn't be lauded. They'd be mocked, mostly by other men, but there'd be a small subsect of women who'd accuse them of trying to "steal" women's thunder etc.

Men do have networks for men. A quick Google shows:

• Mankind Initiative
• Men's Advice Line
• Men's Domestic Abuse Support
• For Men
• Refuge - Support for Men
• Men's Aid
• ADAM Project
• End the Fear
• Safer Places
• Survivors UK
• The Pankhurst Trust
• Men's Advisory Project

Do you have any evidence that these services are mocked by women?

I didn't see anything here saying men shouldn't get help, or shouldn't have recources to do so. In the vast, vast majority of cases, men won't get help. They don't feel they need help. They think women should suck it up, and that there's something wrong with a woman who doesn't bend to their will. Again, it's a range of personalities etc but specifically talking about men here.

We have a men's network at work which, as a member of the women's network, I do work with on certain topics. There are actually lots of men out there campaigning, fundraising and offering support for men who have suffered DV amongst many other issues. However, what seems to be clear is that they do not have access to the same official funding streams women's charities do (but they do get some and I know my local NHS trusts support a helpline for men experiencing abuse) and do experience a fair bit of prejudice and challenge about why such support for men should even exist.

I do think we, as women, need to challenge others who feel that men do not deserve any support or that these issues are not real or unimportant. Just as we are right to expect men to be supportive of improving the lives of women who are victims of abuse so should we do the same in return. Saying "it's not my problem" and "men should sort it out themselves" shows a level of indifference that we are rightly unhappy about when it is expressed by men towards women's issues.

add CALM to that list
and then one of the naysaysers can go and look and see who set them up. If it is exclusively men, i'll eat my hat.

Men are more likely to kill themselves in general, for a number of reasons, some to do with socialisation of the different sexes, some to do with the reliability of the methods they typically choose to end their lives. Its an extremely complex area, and can't be casually thrown in out of context to support a claim of particular severity of DV against men.
Women as a class are not a risk to men and it doesn't matter how many times you say otherwise, you can't obliterate what we know. The hyperbole is self defeating as people will simply think, well I know that's not true, so why should I take any of it seriously?
If the aim is support for men then far better to frame a reasoned and proportionate argument around the issue and address it to those with the power to bring about change (other men). Which you are at liberty to do any time you choose.

agree that a lot of men's issues are down to Toxic Masculinity - it is a problem for society.

(had a quick gander at a few of those orgs in the list by @CherryMaDeara they look pretty good. But as i expected some are under the Women's Aid and Refuge umbrella.)

I think it's often overlooked that the vast majority of violence is perpetrated by men. Male violence is a huge problem in our society, whatever the sex of the victim, and it does seem that men tend to focus on the tiny % perpetrated by women. And yes, it is the responsibility of men to do something about it. Women can be allies and supporters, but it's men who have to say "No More."

And I do think that men would get support if they were public about providing services for male victims. Of course there will be some men and a few women who are arses about it. It's pretty unlikely that the refuge they build will be subject to arson attacks and police raids though. So there's that.

I’m not sure anyone has said it’s women’s jobs or that they’re expected to bend to men’s will. I certainly havent

It's an inference. I could be wrong.

i think posting on a site predominiently populated by women and saying "there is very little help for men out there, ey?" can be construed as at least putting the problem on our doorstep, if not out and out saying "and we should do something about it" (which is a natural thing to construe from those two things)

I think we should fundraise or something ;)

Nope. My current lot of donations are going to, hopefully, go towards getting FGM reduced

So selfish!

Eh? She's selfish because she's giving to charity?

yeah. The menz can take care of themselves. There is a gender pay gap, they have more to spare

It was sarcasm, regardless of where he/she puts their money. HTH.

Agreed, the money should be going to a male circumcision charity. End of.

i did actually pick up on that ;)

Alas, not everyone!

I can see why you'd think that way. It wasn't meant that way. I became aware of it and posted on the site where I post things! While it's not the responsibility of women to provide a service, we're also free to discuss and care about an issue. Plus, there are lots of men here. Not that I'm one of them.

OP perhaps you can try posting this on a male dominated site? If it’s an issue that effects them then maybe they will be more willing to help.