To think there should be a freedom project for men?

[Lilolilibet]

I encouraged my friend (a bloke who is a victim of rather horrific domestic abuse) to do the freedom project. I knew there was a version for men.

On looking closer it turns out that the men's version is to help them curb their abusive behaviours. Doubtless much needed but where is the help for men who are also victims?

It is off putting to apply for help and discover an assumption that you're the perpetrator because you're not a woman. I fully understand it's men's fault that this is the way it works but it's hard on the men who are also victims. Shouldn't there be some acknowledgement of their position too?

https://mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/

This is sobering. 1 in 3 reported victims of DV are male.

And over 60% of men won't tell anyone, which means that the number is much higher than we know

So tell me again how it's not an issue?

No one is saying that.

We are saying that domestic violence services and support for women were and are set up, run by and paid for by women.

There is nothing to stop men setting up equivalent services for men who are victims of DV.

The vast majority of victims of dv are women and the vast majority of perps are men. This isn't dismissive, it's a fact. It's understandable that limited services are directed to those most in need.

Well as the saying goes, with power comes responsibility. The group that has the greater power has the greater responsibility. Not to mention the greater means to bring about change.
As for caring, I care about many things but given I have finite time and resources I need to prioritise. I make no apology for placing the needs of one very much larger, more vulnerable and at higher risk group over another smaller, less vulnerable and at lower risk group.

I feel like things can be both dismissive and fact if its presented in certain ways.

Men often struggle MORE to leave DV situations with children because the mother is always favoured over the father and because women can pull the "Oh but I was so scared of him" card.

18 men were killed by a partner or ex partner compared to 60 women. 18 is nearly 1/3 of the number. Sure seems important and on a big but I bet the papers don't report it the same because it doesn't fit the view they need to hold.

Johnny Depp v Amber Heard springs to mind. Staggering evidence she was abusive to him. Papers still tried to make him the bad guy.

kareningalasmith.com/2021/08/23/sex-differences-in-intimate-partner-homicide-england-and-wales-april-2009-to-march-2020/

Absolutely this.

As women we need to acknowledge that we can be abusive and harmful too. Rather than be dismissive

No one has been dismissive. Of course men experience abuse and absolutely, I imagine it’s a lonely, incredibly difficult place to be. I also imagine it is under reported and the real impact on society as a whole largely unknown. I have huge empathy and would support any man in finding a way out and achieving peace of mind, But why is do,es tic violence against men the fault of every other woman out there? Men have ruled over our society since time began. They made the rules. They are responsible for the majority of violent crime, much of it against women. They hold way more positions of power, whether that be in industry, education or local and national government. They are paid more. They have more freedoms including a pretty much free pass when it comes to financially supporting their children. They earn more with less qualifications and experience. They own more property, including vehicles, houses and commercial property. They are best placed to understand the specific and nuanced needs of men experiencing violence, they have the cash, the power and the influence to challenge social norms, to draft new legislation and to provide funding for projects and campaigns.

And yet you still insist that women should manage all of this for them? Why? I am not a man experiencing violence - there is no story for me to tell. I will listen to any man’s story and donate if persuaded the cause is worth my hard-earned cash. I will sign petitions, use resources to teach about violence in my professional role (teacher, including of pshe), join marches or other campaigns if moved to do so. What else do you expect of women?

In our local authority domestic abuse services are set up by people for people and serve men as well as women.

The Gateway programme has both women's and men's groups.

Don't underestimate the power that white, middle-class British women have. Compared with most groups in the world they have so much power that no white, middle-class, British woman should ever be allowed to complain about anything.

To make it clear I don't know you and I am not suggesting you fall into any of those categories. I'm just making it clear that, in my opinion, white, middle-class British women along with any men that they batter shouldn't be permitted to complain about anything.

Nor should they keep their resources for themselves but they should give those resources to the much more vulnerable women who do not fall into their privileged categories - white, middle-class and British women.

And your last line essentially is
"Fuck men, we need it more"
1/3 of KNOWN DV victims are men, men are also far less likely to speak up so it could be far more
That's significant and ANY victim is someone in need

In Ireland, there is a specific male violence group, and in its advertising, it specifically referred to female on male violence. This is very new though, it wasn't recognised for years because men didn't want to talk about it due to fear of ridicule. It's in its infancy. There was a plot in father ted years ago and it was 'hilarious' that the woman was beating up the man. It took so long for women to get where they are, men have a long way to go. In terms of initial recognition of the problem, lobbying/building for an agency, and growing an agency. And encouraging men to come out with their abuse.

But why is do,es tic violence against men the fault of every other woman out there?

DV against women is widely held to be the fault of every other man out there

And no one is suggesting that women have to be responsible for these services anyway. The question is WHY there isn't the service out there.

Bear in mind that there are men that don't think or act like the general man, nor do they agree with all of their views.

There's no expectation that women should be providing support. It's not your responsibility nor mine but it should be there regardless because it happens, there should be more awareness of the possibilities.

Men don't want to admit they have been abused, you are treated as some kind of sub human, worthless. The reality is, in my case anyway, I'm not aggressive or violent and never retaliated nor would I hurt anyone let alone a woman. The total opposite of a stereotypical man who does whatever and treats women like they are beneath them.

Then what happens when you get away, you are scapegoated as the abuser. Imagine now when I go to court soon and mine is so ridiculously obvious that the judge sees through it all and then the next time a real case from a woman comes in, they think twice and don't believe her... because mine lied.

That to me is wrong and is undermining everything. In a roundabout way it would help both sides of there was more awareness.

It's still considered "funny" and "fair" for women to smash up their partner's X Boxes and PS5s for not getting enough attention

I'm glad Ireland is doing this

People are spectacularly missing the POINT of a lot of the posts here possibly deliberately

1. There ARE services for men
2. The point about women is that services for women ONLY exist because women set them up, campaigned for awareness, raised the money, applied for the grants, recruited and trained the volunteers - and continue to do so. That's why people are suggesting men do the same.

Women have not been handed women's aid or rape crisis on a plate - it came from years of organising, campaigning, facing hostility etc. It's a very male prospective to point at Women's services and go 'we want that - do it for us' - we still have to spend time and energy maintaining the ones that exist for women!

No one is saying men don't suffer abuse

I hope your friend gets the help he needs OP

my instinctive answer is: boo hoo

Because do you know how long and hard the fight was for the first women's refuge? etc etc

There are resources out there, they have to look for them. Just like the rest of us have to. I have sympathy for them, but I'm not prepared to put in the work for people who don't contribute to do it for themselves or their fellow men.

To be brutally honest, it's not. People don't think about men suffering DV (law of averages). I knew one guy who told me he's suffered from his fella, i had no idea. And i really do think that a lot of guys still wouldn't admit to it (unless to best mates with copious amounts of drink). Tbf to them, it's not an easy thing to talk about at the best of times, but men have no real roadmap atm. Women have been advertising (not flippant!) it for years, so we know where to go.

@AnObserverInThisDarkWorld

It's still considered "funny" and "fair" for women to smash up their partner's X Boxes and PS5s for not getting enough attention

Is it? I'd consider that domestic violence and I'm about as much of a man hating feminist as you could get

nope.
We have enough of a fight on our hands getting the police to take stalking harassment and abuse seriously enough that 2 women a week don'T end up dead at the hands of a partner or ex.

We have enough work on our hands getting women provisioned for themselves and their children when they end up homeless or looking for help when a relationship breaks down and they are literally left holding the baby(ies)

we have enough work to do to keep women safe.

Men can bloody well step up and help themselves. As i have said before: CALM (the campaign against living miserably) set up by a woman. Another one in Brighton (I think) providing mental health support for men. Set up by a woman: who received awful online abuse for doing so or not doing it right or not doing enough.

So no. I have limited resources. Men can look out for themselves. Because they sure as heck aren't setting up refuges for anyone, let alone women.

*if we could get in....

And women struggle to leave abusive relationships because they are terrified their partner will kill them.

Not sure how you have come to the conclusion that men have it harder tbh.

Exactly. Don't forget that the poorly paid staff in those existing male services are typically women as well. The men's trauma centre, the immigrant services, the homeless provision... poorly paid women all over.

Women are already doing massively more than men about men's trauma. And particularly boys' trauma. Pretending OP was neutral about who should be doing extra while posting on MUMSnet is disingenuous.

Where do you think DV support for women came from? Who do you think set DV shelters up?

Just saw Johnny Depp. What next, poor Jimmy Saviile? Bizarre.