To think there should be a freedom project for men?

[Lilolilibet]

I encouraged my friend (a bloke who is a victim of rather horrific domestic abuse) to do the freedom project. I knew there was a version for men.

On looking closer it turns out that the men's version is to help them curb their abusive behaviours. Doubtless much needed but where is the help for men who are also victims?

It is off putting to apply for help and discover an assumption that you're the perpetrator because you're not a woman. I fully understand it's men's fault that this is the way it works but it's hard on the men who are also victims. Shouldn't there be some acknowledgement of their position too?

I was just making a point about why many won't report it, but of course that's true of any victim.

I would like to apologise for starting this thread and not returning. A RL crisis came up.

There is support groups for men

it’s up to men to create more support for male victims

woman have enough to do supporting women from male violence

@Lilolilibet talking is the only way. Hume and Trimble showed us that. So now is the time more than ever, to take notice and put our backs into peace. They did it (am ROI), so i can bloody well do it now, with my local reps or anyone who'll listen. I talk to my 11 y/o about NI, it's so important for us all to know about it. And tbh, thanks for the head wobble, if i had a pop quiz now on northern politicians, i'd be sht (apart from Michelle O'Neill, and wondering is Arlene Foster still there). So get a move on fcker!.( me) Study plan for tomorrow.

I feel that someone should post the stop asking me about men blogpost here. I would if I was better with that kind of thing.

This just shows how far we have to go
I firmly believe that as women we have to accept that we can and do abuse men. That we aren't perfect and we are capable. That as much as men abuse us, we can abuse them. Not always in the same way (whilst females can physically abuse males, a female DV abuser will usually be mentally and emotionally abusing their partner) but we can.

As much as people are saying that no one is dismissing or diminishing male abuse victims... its all over the place here. From saying women deserve the help more to blatantly saying men will lie about being victims to escape justice when it's far more likely to be a woman who does that.

Then there's the fact OP never suggested we as women need to be the ones to set up the help, just said it should exist. But people are jumping all over them to say men can go help themselves...

Women who react and attack their partner when they're being abused are labelled heroes, men who react are labelled abusers themselves.

I even shared statistics saying men are more than 5 times more likely to NOT say anything about being abused than women and still people are ignoring that this means there's a HUGE issue of men keeping DV secret

Then there's cries of "not all women" but we all know you can't say "not all men"...

Some of you need to take a long look in the mirror and ask "would my son* feel able to tell me he was being abused? Would I believe him? Would I tell him women have had it worse? Would I know where to point him for help?"

To do better we have to acknowledge we can be both perpetrator and victim

Thank you for finding this Laurie. I haven't read all the thread, but I was wondering in the 1/3 statistic what proportion of that was male to male violence. I have a lovely male friend who was horrifically abused by his male partner.
There is help out there, but I don't think it's as well publicised for men. For example in male toilets is there information on where to get help for domestic violence?

As women most of us do not 'have far to go' @AnObserverInThisDarkWorld in recognising that a tiny minority of men experience violence from women in domestic situations from which they are powerless to extract themselves. Or that some men are in relationships with unpleasant women who verbally attack, humiliate and undermine them, and may also physically assault them. Or that due to the toxic masculinity created by men, some amongst their number are embarrassed to disclose or ask for help.
Few would be so naive or disingenuous as to pretend this never happens or that every woman is perfect.
However that is not what is being asked of us.
What appears to be wanted is that we view the experiences of this minority of men together with the entirely different problem of male violence against women and girls. That in order not to be 'dismissive' of men, we politely pretend that the scale, risk and damage caused by the former is equal to and indistinguishable from the latter.
I doubt many would lack sympathy on an individual level with a man experiencing DV in any form. Or begrudge him access to support. But to frame this as a problem men as a group experience, that women need to take responsibility to address, because its exactly the same as DV against women and girls and women are 'just as bad' is a blatant falsehood.
As for my own sons, if they disclosed to me they'd have my full support on an individual level. Which I could give without extrapolating they were experiencing a problem created by women and faced by men as a group.
However of all the threats I worry that my sons might face, that of violence from their female partner comes a great deal lower down the list than my worries about the risk to them from other men. And rightly so.
People framing women as a significant threat to the safety and wellbeing of men are doing men no favours. Its simply blowing up a smokescreen over the real risks to them, and going for the low hanging fruit of appealing to the empathy of women, or trying to shame us into solving a problem that is not our responsibility. More insidiously it serves to dilute the issue of violence against women and girls with its false equivalence.

I know some men would never report DV because they fear their abusive partner would claim abuse (whether true or not) and they'd be the ones who'd be in trouble.

post after post here pointing out that when women leave their violent and abusive partners one of the real possibilities is that he will kill them.

Hence the need for instantly accessible shelter.

And historically set up by and run by (low paid) women.

If men have a need they can set it up. It can't be hard, women managed it after decades of fighting for it. Plenty of women have said they will help. There is a model to follow, because women have paved the way, so it is (in theory) a little easier because the path has been trodden.

so: what is stopping them? The fear they'll be laughed at? will that kill them?

Some of you need to take a long look in the mirror and ask "would my son feel able to tell me he was being abused? Would I believe him? Would I tell him women have had it worse? Would I know where to point him for help?"*

now go on a predominently male forum and post that, eh? for balance

because you are preaching at literally the wrong audience here. With a few (provocative) exceptions here, nobody is against help for men. Heck some have even pointed out resources and said yes, they'd be prepared to help.

But it is women, as a class, who need to take a look at ourselves? REALLY?

Sure, the fuckimg menz have been suffering for years! Ugh, the tone of this is all wrong, nobody would say more MH services should not be available for men, but the whingy tone is really grating when women have been on their knees for decades. Centuries really. Men have enough fucking power to sort themselves out with the required organisation (*this is obviously a generalisation)

I just want to be clear that i am not against anyone at all (men or women) setting up, funding (or begging for funding or fundraising) facilities for men who flee their homes due to DV.

And resources for men's mental health.
And to push men to go for prostrate cancer checks and all the other things.

My proviso is: they stop whining that the things aren't there. Sure women moaned about that and then... campaigned and raised funds to make things happen. And that they don't make a grab for the precarious funds and facilities that women already have.

Could you send me a link to your fundraising campaign please, I'd like to contribute.

👊👊👊

And if men chose to do this now there would be huge support for them. They'd be all over both MSM and SM. They'd be heroes. It would all happen in weeks. Which would be great, of course. They only have to do it. I'm happy to support men who actually do something.

Erin Pizzey was vilified and abused. Existed on less than a shoe string. The police took the side of the husbands of women she was trying to protect and shelter. Pubs banned them if they tried to go out for a drink. Social Services sided with their abusers. Great that it will be easier for men when they get going.

blatantly saying men will lie about being victims to escape justice when it's far more likely to be a woman who does that

Lovely. I guess you only take issue with sexism in one direction.

Absolutely. Men should set them up and get to helping.

Exactly this, yet we’re meant to believe men don’t do these things because women aren’t supportive enough, like men ever fucking supported us, yet we still managed.

Agree

I hadn't thought of women providing this service. On reflection, the absence of any substantial counterpart to the freedom project does say something negative about men's failure to help each other. They do need something more than a helpline but of course they should be providing it to each other.

Obviously my friend doesn't have the expertise or resources to do anything about the lack of provision currently. If he did, he wouldn't be in need of it.

Thanks to those who have signposted further help.

The male domestic abuse network has a key resources page that may be helpful.

Key national resources

Facts are better than opinions.

DV is an overwhelmingly gendered crime. Women die every week as a consequence.

Refuges and charities for male victims do exist. Its simply not true to say that they don't.

Some of the charities supporting male victims were founded largely by women.

Support work for men suffering DV is often provided by low paid women staffers.

I agree with @Clymene up thread "t's a shame that men put so little energy into supporting male victims of domestic violence"

OP: you question would be better placed on male dominated discussion groups (which would be most of them). Its not a question women can answer on their behalf.

It doesn't. But we can always rely on you to pop along and tell us all how we are getting everything wrong about men.

@FloydPepper I'm just wondering whether you feel your statement "Mumsnet has a blind spot when it comes to male victims of abuse. Posters tend to perpetuate the myths of them being somehow to blame and not really worthy of help"
still holds after reading this thread?

so @FloydPepper is this thread indicative of MNs (it is not a homogenous blob, you know) hatred of men.

I think it is pretty representative of the members of MN's attitudes to men as a class: it recognises that they can be victims of DV and male violence, it recognises that DV is gendered and overwhelmingly detrimental to women, it recognises that men need DV resources, it recognises that men need MH resources, it recognises that individuals can be violent to their partners regardless of their or their partners' sex

What is it you want, exactly? for us to release a great wailing and gnashing of teeth that we haven't stepped up to provide mirror services to men?