To be annoyed when people liken smacking a child to violence against women?

[ForestGoblin]

It's obviously not the same thing at all and quite insulting to women.

Things have definitely changed since the seventies - I was smacked but these days DM wouldn't dream of laying a finger on DD, she knows better. Of course it isn't the same as VAWG, but it is still violence and leaves lasting memories, not good ones. I still resent my parents for doing it, although I love them. Nobody who has been smacked will forget it, which indicates trauma occurred.

Here is the definition of child physical abuse
Physical Child Abuse Definition: non-accidental injury resulting from hitting, whipping, beating, biting, kicking, or anything that harms a child's body.
https://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/child-physical-abuse/what-is-child-physical-abuse-physical-abuse-of-children

But of course preventing a child from coming to harm is quite different from smacking a child in anger or to discipline. One is accident prevention and the other is assault. That is the differentiation.

There is no differentiation between assaulting a child and an adult.

But you don’t smack their hand, you grab it and move it away…

Glad I’m not the only one that figured that out! I said upthread you can stop a child from coming to harm without harming them by blocking, gentle restraining, a sharp “don’t” or ‘freeze’ if they are old enough for verbal cues, or if instinct remove the harmful item from their reach or shield them.

My 2yr old DD was once pushing on a swing bench and I had said don’t, you might get hurt, she giggled and pushed it harder and it flew back headed towards colliding with her face. I had a split second to react. I didn’t hit her or push her over. I simply jumped in front of the swing between her and it to shield her from it.

I don’t understand parents that wouldn’t do this, but would have just done a smack or shove to get them out of the path of the swing. I’d rather risk myself being harmed than harm my child.

@Coriolise would you have done that if it wasn't a swing but instead they were approaching a dangerous dog on a leash? Or if they were about to walk in front of a car? would you risk severe injury to yourself if there was an option to just use a bit of violence against your child and push them out the way? I'd sure as hell tackle my kid to the ground and risk giving them all sorts of bruises if necessary. Much better than using myself as bait or as a human shield if there's an actual serious threat of harm.

Yeah, I would. I have done - run into traffic, got between them and dogs (and a shark). I think if there were an extreme incident then yeah, I might have had to do a tackle or something to save their life, but I was lucky enough to never encounter one. But, yes I can imagine that there is a limit to avoiding harm, it would just be rare. Like dropping your child out a window to a mattress you thrown on the ground during a house fire. Or pushing them so they are out of the path of a landslide or out of control vehicle. Literally life saving and the child is going to know that, so it’s not a behaviour modification or discipline when you start talking about life/limb saving interventions.

A hot drink like a coffee or tea…I mean there’s a good chance even if they spill it they’re not going to be harmed - it’s most likely to just create a mess as what parent even sets scalding temp boiling hot drink in reach of a small child in the first place? You should be making it to drinking temperature before even setting it down - so violence/harm is just is not warranted imho.

I just caught up with this thread and I can honestly say that I feel so uncomfortable.

My Mum smacked me on occasion. She didn't really bother though, she would leave it to my Dad (cos she was as lazy then as she is now and that was the easiest option for her).

My Dad would put me over his knee, pull my knickers down and use his hand, or a hairbrush and continue to smack me until he felt that I had learned my lesson. This might have been for 5 minutes. Sometimes it was up to an hour. Sometimes he would smack me, put me in the corner for a couple of hours and then I'd go back over his knee to make sure that I was contrite. Once he had finished, if he felt like I wasn't sorry enough, or I was still giving him attitude, he would pull me back over his knee. This would continue until he was sure I was sorry.

This was for things like running in the road, putting fingers in sockets, getting into trouble in school, looking at him the 'wrong way', etc, and as I got older, for wearing too much make-up, being late home, not using the zebra crossing, losing things, smoking.. you get the idea. He did this to my brother's, too, but only until they were about 10/11, because 'obviously you can't do that to boys.' I, the only girl, was spanked across his knee until I left at about 18, and then again when because I back-chatted my mother when I was visiting home, making it clear that I was 'never too old for a good hiding.'

When I was brave enough, I went to the police. The CPS did fuck-all because it was his word against mine, despite the fact my brothers were willing to give statements, as well as my cousins, who he also smacked when they stayed at my house.

If course I'm fucking traumatized and of course I am going to say that smacking is NEVER ok.

I've said it before and I will say it again, smacking is abusive. Don't come at me with the 'your situation was extreme' crap, because once you put your hands on your kids, you've assaulted them. Doesn't matter how fucking light or hard you smack them.

I have BPD as a result of my childhood. I hate both my parents though thankfully my Dad is dead now and I don't have to see him anymore.

There's very little differnece as far as as I can see.

Someone does something the other person doesn't like. The other person seeks to correct and control that behaviour by hitting them. It's one person assuming authority over another which they believe gives them the right to hurt then.

I've never smacked either of my children (now 25 and 17). It's never done either of them any harm...

Neither of them has ever laid a finger on anyone else either.

@Dinojump
My childhood was also full of abuse and I so so sympathise with you. I wish I could send you a big hug. I was also diagnosed with BPD due to it but that’s since been updated to PTSD and now looking at cPTSD. I am 110% in agreement with you, and the older my DC got, the angrier and angrier I got at my parents because I didn’t hit my kids at all. Not once. And that to me proved children don’t need to be hit to be disciplined or grow up “unspoiled” or learn right from wrong. Not even “difficult” children with SEN and I got two of those! My mum used to say to me “may God give you daughters like you” both as a curse and an excuse, like I made them do it by being a bad daughter. Parents they can fuck you up.

They are the same. It's an abuse of power.

Where people relate on MN that they've belted their kids, it's never 'reasonable chastisement'. It's ALWAYS 'I lost my rag' or 'they pushed me past my limit' - exactly the kinds of things that men who beat their wives report.

There's no fucking difference.

It was legal for a man to rape his wife up until (I think) 1992.

What happened in the past is no guide at all to what is moral or ethical.

I'm so sorry @Dinojump you were so let down by so many people

I don’t like hitting of any sort, really.

It's the same, man, woman, child or animal. If you physically punish someone as a way to get them to comply, you are an abuser.

I'm so sorry you went through this too. People can be disgusting towards the people that they are meant to love.

I have an appointment with my MH team next week. At my last one, they were trying to suggest that I had PTSD but I refused to even consider that idea but I think they are right.

It sucks.

I refused to have kids but in all honesty that was to punish my parents and now it's probably too late so that's a massive trauma as well.

@Dinojump that's awful I'm so sorry. Im shocked that CPS didn't see that as sexual abuse tbh. Doing that to a teenager sounds like way more than physical abuse to me. Just horrible.

Of course there are similarities
Its a bigger/stronger person using physical force to control a smaller weaker person.

Absolutely. We do tell children it's wrong to hit anyone else.

Because it is, isn't it?

Somebody I went to school with used to get hit for hitting his sister. How confusing for the poor little love.

There was a landmark court appeal in 1991 where the House of Lords upheld a woman’s case against her husband for attempted rape but it wasn’t until 2003 Sexual Offences Act that marital rape was actually codified as a crime in the statute books.

Do you smack your child OP? Or if you don't have kids, do you think smacking is ok?

Smacking and violence against women is all violence. It's all designed to hurt and/or humiliate. For the "it did me no harm" brigade: I was smacked occasionally and I can absolutely remember how it made me feel and the harm it did me. I would never hit my kids.

Very odd comment OP. If that is actually your belief, rather than mischievous provocation, I suggest you seek help.