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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be annoyed when people liken smacking a child to violence against women?

199 replies

ForestGoblin · 23/08/2023 13:05

It's obviously not the same thing at all and quite insulting to women.

OP posts:
Yellowflower47 · 23/08/2023 14:48

It’s all abhorrent. Why would it annoy you?! None of it is correct. Imagine hitting a defenceless innocent child and then expecting them to grow up well rounded and emotionally stable. Disgusting behaviour. Stop minimising child abuse.

TheGirlFromTomorrow · 23/08/2023 14:48

I'm not insulted.

calmcoco · 23/08/2023 14:49

Violence against children
Violence against women
Both are violence

fitzwilliamdarcy · 23/08/2023 14:50

@Talista That’s a silly comparison. Limiting a child’s screen time is part of good parenting and ensuring healthy child development. Smacking is neither - quite the opposite.

Mistymist · 23/08/2023 14:51

Violence is violence. End of.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 23/08/2023 14:52

(Oh, and I speak as someone with “genuinely” abusive parents. I’m not insulted by the notion that hitting a child for any reason is abusive.)

nobodysdaughternow · 23/08/2023 14:55

My Dad hit my Mum and my Mum hit me.

Didn't look or feel any different.

Bluejaybean · 23/08/2023 15:00

I was smacked a handful of times as a child, it wasn't a regular occurance and I have a good relationship with my parents.

However I can never remember them smacking me in a calm, disciplined way. Every time they did it it was because I had wound them up to the point that they lost control of their own anger towards me and were furious when they smacked me.

It's not something I'm repeating with my child no matter how angry I get, and I'm not sure if I believe that it is ever done calmly.

neverbeenskiing · 23/08/2023 15:05

You're right OP, it's not the same thing. Children are smaller, more vulnerable and less able to advocate for themselves than adult women.
It is shameful that children in this country are not afforded the same protections from assault as adults. The law should be changed.

Ponderingwindow · 23/08/2023 15:07

You are right, they aren’t they same. Women at least have the option of leaving. Children are trapped with their abusers.

Greenwitchhorse · 23/08/2023 15:10

What an odd question...

It isn't a competition.

Using physical violence against someone else, whether a woman, a child, a man or an elderly person is never acceptable.

Talista · 23/08/2023 16:24

fitzwilliamdarcy · 23/08/2023 14:50

@Talista That’s a silly comparison. Limiting a child’s screen time is part of good parenting and ensuring healthy child development. Smacking is neither - quite the opposite.

But it's one that's made all the time - 'you wouldn't hit your wife so don't hit your child'. I was pointing out that that's a bad argument, as we all inflict things on our children as part of good parenting that wouldn't be acceptable to do to another adult. Some people do still class smacking as part of good parenting. I think they are wrong, but I also think it's ludicrous to suggest that mild corporal punishment of children is the same as domestic violence against either a woman or a child. I was smacked occasionally as a child but my parents were in no way abusive. It would definitely be an insult to victims of domestic violence to put my experience into that category.

avocadotofu · 23/08/2023 16:47

Ponderingwindow · 23/08/2023 15:07

You are right, they aren’t they same. Women at least have the option of leaving. Children are trapped with their abusers.

Exactly this. Hitting kids is worse in my opinion because they have no where to go and (at least in theory) a woman can leave, although I know it's harder in reality.

PriOn1 · 23/08/2023 16:50

TotalOverhaul · 23/08/2023 14:33

I think the two are very similar. Lose your temper and rely on your physical advantage to dominate and humiliate someone you should love and care for? It's just wrong.

What makes you think someone using smacking as punishment for a child has lost their temper? I don’t think it’s always the case, bizarre though that seems.

It used to be absolutely routine as a correctional technique and a friend’s husband sometimes smacked their children when he got home, for example. No temper involved. She once told me the children had the choice of corporal punishment or grounding and they chose the former, to get it over with. My own children were not smacked, but experienced psychological pain delivered by their father, which I think was just as damaging.

I also know my mother hated smacking me, but did it when I was very young, I think on the grounds that pain is a good deterrent and it was just normal.

Doesn’t make it right, but I can see a difference between domestic violence against a wife or child and a controlled smack to a child who is too young to understand reason as a method of discipline.

It’s better that the latter is banned as the line between the two is too easily blurred, but my mother was not the same as a man beating his wife, just because it is now considered unacceptable to do either.

foolishone · 23/08/2023 16:53

I'm wondering if the OP was more troll than goblin.

DinnaeFashYersel · 23/08/2023 16:55

There are many similarities:

Its assault
The victims are vulnerable
There is usually a power imbalance involved
The perpetrator is usually in a relationship with the victim
Some people think these types of assault are justified in some circumstances

Sayitaintso33 · 24/08/2023 07:56

We are allowed to discipline our children, we are not allowed to discipline other adults. Smacking is assault, but then taking away pocket money can be theft and putting on the naughty step or sending them to their room is kidnap and false imprisonment.

We allow assault or violence in self-defence either on the personal level or the international. The war in the Ukraine is very violent but we rightly praise the bravery of the Ukrainians. In certain situations the Police are allowed to assault us if we do not comply with their lawful commands. Until recently you were allowed to 'assault' a child in lawful chastisement.

I didn't smack my children but if i had done it would have been to discipline them not to assault them.

We no longer beat prisoners but if they do not comply with the orders of their jailers they can be 'assaulted' - not punched, kicked and beaten but physically forced to do things they don't want to. Those who are saying violence is always violence, assault is always assault would be against a prisoner being dragged into his cell if he refused to co-operate. They would also be against defending their country if invaded.

Smacking a child is different to assaulting a woman.

Zippedydoodahday · 24/08/2023 08:04

If you smack children we teach them it is okay to hit people when we are angry and the violence is an acceptable means of controlling someone. If we didn't hit children then perhaps there would be a lot less violence against women?

And why is it okay for someone to live in fear of being hit if they behave in a particular way at say 6, but not 26?

foolishone · 24/08/2023 08:07

Sayitaintso33 · 24/08/2023 07:56

We are allowed to discipline our children, we are not allowed to discipline other adults. Smacking is assault, but then taking away pocket money can be theft and putting on the naughty step or sending them to their room is kidnap and false imprisonment.

We allow assault or violence in self-defence either on the personal level or the international. The war in the Ukraine is very violent but we rightly praise the bravery of the Ukrainians. In certain situations the Police are allowed to assault us if we do not comply with their lawful commands. Until recently you were allowed to 'assault' a child in lawful chastisement.

I didn't smack my children but if i had done it would have been to discipline them not to assault them.

We no longer beat prisoners but if they do not comply with the orders of their jailers they can be 'assaulted' - not punched, kicked and beaten but physically forced to do things they don't want to. Those who are saying violence is always violence, assault is always assault would be against a prisoner being dragged into his cell if he refused to co-operate. They would also be against defending their country if invaded.

Smacking a child is different to assaulting a woman.

What a load of absolute crap! Sorry but that's nonsense.

Sayitaintso33 · 24/08/2023 08:10

foolishone · 24/08/2023 08:07

What a load of absolute crap! Sorry but that's nonsense.

You have to explain why.

BotchedToe · 24/08/2023 08:10

PriOn1 · 23/08/2023 16:50

What makes you think someone using smacking as punishment for a child has lost their temper? I don’t think it’s always the case, bizarre though that seems.

It used to be absolutely routine as a correctional technique and a friend’s husband sometimes smacked their children when he got home, for example. No temper involved. She once told me the children had the choice of corporal punishment or grounding and they chose the former, to get it over with. My own children were not smacked, but experienced psychological pain delivered by their father, which I think was just as damaging.

I also know my mother hated smacking me, but did it when I was very young, I think on the grounds that pain is a good deterrent and it was just normal.

Doesn’t make it right, but I can see a difference between domestic violence against a wife or child and a controlled smack to a child who is too young to understand reason as a method of discipline.

It’s better that the latter is banned as the line between the two is too easily blurred, but my mother was not the same as a man beating his wife, just because it is now considered unacceptable to do either.

Haha, when I was old enough to write lines, I had a choice between writing lines and belting. I always chose the belting too, for the same reason. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Thepeopleversuswork · 24/08/2023 08:14

As a general principle they are the same: a physically stronger person using violence to control and sometimes humiliate a physically weaker person. So I can’t really see why this would annoy you.

There are some nuances in certain cases though. I am very firmly against physical discipline of children but I can imagine rare cases where a child may need to be physically restrained (for example if running into a busy road).

ForTheLoveOfSleep · 24/08/2023 08:27

Same thing. "If you do something I don't like I'll hurt you."

Takes a special kind of monster to do that to anyone.

Incywinced · 24/08/2023 08:36

I think in someways having it done in a calm way is worse

In the heat of the moment you can understand that someone is panicked, or has just completely lost it.

To give your kid a choice between an adult inflicting pain on them, or another punishment, then making them wait hours after the event for another adult to come and hit them at a planned time is borderline psychopathic. At that point the heat of the moment has gone, you have other options, yet pain is the one you chose

I

Goslowglowworm · 24/08/2023 08:37

There are some nuances in certain cases though. I am very firmly against physical discipline of children but I can imagine rare cases where a child may need to be physically restrained (for example if running into a busy road).

This is absolutely not the same though. I once slapped a child's hand away from barbecue coals. Not because I wanted to slap the child (he wasn't even mine, he was my friends!) But because it was the only thing I had time to do in the split second before a toddler seriously burnt himself. It's not the same as hitting because you are angry or to discipline, which I would never do.
I immediately apologised to the child and my friend by the way. The child cried for a split second and my friend thanked me (she had turned her back for about 20 seconds to get a plate)