To be annoyed when people liken smacking a child to violence against women?

[ForestGoblin]

It's obviously not the same thing at all and quite insulting to women.

Hitting children is not okay, I think it's generally the choice of discipline for parents who have poor relationships with their children. That said, there are some absolute hooligan kids around with pathetic parents who have zero control. Saw a kid on a bicycle - around 10 years old - being chased by a security guard in Boots this week because he was cycling around store and knocking things off shelves.

I think it's cultural. I was beaten as a child - I wouldn't go back and change it. I am grateful for the way I grew up. 🤷🏻‍♀️ It caused transient negative feelings, as it's supposed to do. I and my siblings turned out well (productive members of society, no more neuroses than are typical).

Imo the trauma aspect may be cultural - I have plenty of friends (none of us from the UK) who were beaten as children - we have good relationships with our parents and healthy relationships with partners, friends, etc. Beating was culturally normal and so didn't instil any long term negative feelings. Perhaps where you are beaten and the dominant cultural narrative is that beating is wrong, this does actually instil more negative feelings/cause trauma. I don't know. It's an interesting topic for sure.

Absolutely

Oh how shocking, the OP never returned

That's an interesting point BotchedToe.
I have friends who say that beatings were a standard part of them growing up and they view it quite nonchalantly.

At the same time they've been out for lunch with me and my DC, were compliments about DC's behaviour and then we're amazed that we've never raised a finger to them.

Their take was that they'd often thought UK children were badly behaved because of the lack of beatings, but the more friends they made in the UK who disciplined their children without violence and still have well-behaved, respectful children has left them considering whether there are better ways to get a good outcome.

What I found interesting was that they said it was unusual that our DC would come and speak to us if they'd made a mistake because friend wouldn't have dared tell their mother. They'd have found it better to try and hide it or lie to avoid a beating.

Both are wrong obviously but I think smacking children is worse as children don't have the ability to just leave or even talk to someone else. They would just think it's normal. Women are adults. Yes I know all the difficulty with women being able to leave their Oh when they get abused but this is not the same for children. Children don't even have half the strength of a grown man. I would much rather be hit then have my children be hit. Those who smack children and not women in my opinion are weaker and a lot worse than the other way round

Yanbu

Yes. I would agree that as you go back through human history our ancestors were monsters.

If so, just about all of our ancestors will have been monsters.

I mean yeah. It's kind of how much of the world was 'conquered' 🥴

This thread is making me feel ill. We need a law to protect our children from violence. If people can't work it out themselves that it's not OK then we must do something.
It hurts to think of all the children being hit, and worse, growing up thinking they deserved it.

@missmollygreen I'm similar. Most parents I know in real life think of smacking as something that should be avoided as much as possible but can be needed. For example, a small child that repeatedly does something that will hurt themselves is probably better off associating that action with the pain of a smack than the pain of being hit by a car if they're too young to understand reason. I understand that you should use reins, etc., etc., but don't underestimate the ability of some children to overcome obstacles like that and you can't just lock them in the house because they'd have ripped the child lock off the window and be on the roof before you know it.

Interestingly the parents I know who are most likely to think smacking has its place are the ones who are more live wires themselves and I think their kids are just naturally more dangerous to themselves. There's definitely a correlation between the kind of parent that is likely to sky dive and the kind of child who is likely to launch themselves out their car seat on the motorway for the fifth time that week.

Corporal punishment is also coercive control. As a child who was disciplined by the use of corporal punishment in British schools before it was outlawed, I can hand on heart tell you this.

Most parents used to smack children as discipline- and that is also coercive control.

Coercive control is simply a shorthand way of saying controlling the behaviour of another person through fear, fraud and/or punishment.

Blimey I was smacked as a child, I normally bloody deserved it. I have never been in a violent relationship and my parents weren't violent towards each other, it's only a smack... not a beating.

What kind of civilised person or society thinks hitting a child is ok or "less bad" than hitting an adult?

Hitting ANYONE is wrong and in Scotland both are against the law. Violence breeds more violence.

As you seem thoroughly unbothered, can you please define “beating”?

I was beaten as a child when it was culturally accepted and I feel exactly opposite to you. For reference, to me, a beating would be being physically assaulted aggressively until I was unconscious and injured.

I don't think it's ok to do those things to children actually, except perhaps take the phone or at least have limits on how much it can be used, as it's not good to be on screens loads

It's not exactly the same no. It does annoy me when people say 'would you think it OK to smack an adult?' Like it's the same thing .. it's clearly not.

But there are some similarities and comparisons to be made. So I think yabu to think no one should ever liken it to that.. as it is in some ways like it. It's just not exactly equivalent..

Mainly because adults do not tend to do things like dart out in the road in front of cars or try to fling themselves into rivers.. and you aren't completely responsible for keeping them safe 24/7 with no let up.

I absolutely do not agree with smacking kids or think it a useful parenting technique. But I do view it as far more understandable than hitting an adult. I think people who smack their kids need support and help to parent better.
Obviously that doesn't apply to actual physical abuse of children.. and I do think there's a difference between smacking a child with an open hand and actual physical abuse. Both are bad but one is and should definitely be a criminal action whereas the other can often just be that a parent needs support and it could be resolved. Parenting young children can be very hard.

Disgusting attitude. They're both domestic violence

This this this.

There's some terrible parents really revealing themselves on here

"Calm" people don't resort to violence.

Define violence honestly and accurately and you will realise that we do.

I think everyone would agree that beating that results in injury or loss of consciousness is abuse...

Most would understand beating as hitting repeatedly (usually with belt/shoe/whatever), without causing more than transient harm, in order to deter behavior that prompted the beating. I don't think it helps anyone to conflate this with child abuse.

My parents both smacked me - mum more frequently (but not often) and dad very infrequently but harder. I don't consider myself abused - I think it was more normalised as a punishment in the 1970s/80s.
But I haven't and wouldn't smack my own children.

It used to be absolutely routine as a correctional technique and a friend’s husband sometimes smacked their children when he got home, for example. No temper involved. She once told me the children had the choice of corporal punishment or grounding and they chose the former, to get it over with.

I don't understand this - smacking for no apparent reason seems more abusive than smacking as punishment? Did they even know what behaviour was being allegedly "corrected"?

The definition of a beating is to hit repeatedly and hard enough to cause injury. I rather think that you are conflating a spanking with a beating. Both are child abuse, but a spanking while painful is abuse that doesn’t cause bodily injury.

Well, instead of me coming up with my own definition, I'll give you one from the Brittanica online dictionary.

"violence, an act of physical force that causes or is intended to cause harm. The damage inflicted by violence may be physical, psychological, or both."

Actually, I was pondering it this morning and I think you may be correct. Some people can calmly inflict violence on children. We would class them as Psychopaths.