I think my daughter is throwing her life away

[BeauxBelle]

My daughter is 22, 23 next week, she is a smart, confident, beautiful girl. She did very well in her A-Levels, took a gap year to travel, did a BA in Classics and Ancient History, currently finishing her MA in Classics. She is in a relationship with a man 16 years older, they started dating 3 years ago, got engaged last year, due to marry next September.
We went for lunch yesterday, talking about the future etc. and she dropped that she is starting a second masters next month, immediately after the completion of her current one, this time in English Literature, when I asked why she doesn't plan to get a job, she explained that she doesn't intend to work, She will marry, then they will start trying for children and she will be a stay-at-home mum.
I'm upset and angry, we paid for her to attend top schools her whole life, funded the gap year, all her Uni costs, we are paying for this big dreamy wedding, to a man we do not like (he will be 40 when they marry!!) and for what, for her to stay home and make no life of her own??
Her fiancé is from a decently well off family, he owns a home mortgage free, plans to sell and his parents have offered to cover a ridiculous amount extra to buy a family home. She has tried to reassure me by saying we don't have to pay for this masters as her fiancé has offered to. I'm terrified he is trying to trap her, leave her with no independence. She is sure he isn't. I am a GP, my husband is a Lawyer, I thought we had raised our children to know you have to work hard and earn your own living!!
I feel like she is throwing her life away to play housewife to an older man!!
AIBU to feel she is throwing her life away? Should I share my concerns or leave her to it?

A PhD would be a good plan - at least it would give her more of her own identity, though she's unlikely to get funding for classics. I don't agree with the idea that her education is "wasted" if it's not being used to get some management consultancy wage slave job, that sounds mad to me. But you want more for her than "Rick knob's pretty young wife". I get that.

There are a lot of assumptions on the thread about nails, hairdressers and polish on the basis of her boarding school education. In fact, boarding schools turn out shy geeky quiet intellectual girls as much as glamour pusses.

But I agree with the PhD, it would give her time and options. She’s always got the possibility of teacher training.

The outcome of all this largely depends on the character of DH. David and Georgia Tennant seem perfectly happy with a comparable age gap.

If DH is controlling and his main aim is to have a SAHW there will be issues when the children are older and DD wants to work. If he’s a decent type, flexible and content to benefit from the additional income from his wife, there may not be an issue.

Not a bad idea to have your children in your 20s. Focusing on your career and then having them mid to late thirties can lead to problems for at least some women (fertility problems, more pregnancy issues, higher rates of disability etc). But you will know this, OP, being a GP. So if she wants children, as you say she does, she is probably better off starting mid twenties as seems to be the plan. I've noticed that wealthier couples often have bigger families probably because they can afford them.

It's clear some pp on this thread are looking down on sahm as not being a good choice for an intelligent woman. Quite insulting really. When children are young being a sahm is very hard work, minding children all day is not a lazy choice, but it's one some people activity enjoy. I don't think it has much to do with 'intelligence ' whether you enjoy it or not, but perhaps it suits some personalities better than others.

I suggest when she has time later on she takes up volunteer work if she doesn't choose to pursue a career at this stage. There is more than one way to contribute to society OP. And yes you should help her make sure she is financially protected if things go wrong. In my experience young people often don't think this will happen to them, no matter how 'intelligent' they are. It helps to have the benefit of experience so you can guide her there.

That is one of the down sides of paying for education, there is no guarantee it will be worth it

Perhaps the recipient thinks it was worth it. Her choice as to what to do with it.

I'm a sahm and have been for well over a decade. I'm not insulted by this thread. I'm appalled by the ops DD lifestyle. It's one thing choosing to be a sahm it's quite another to not even attempt to have a job prior to children. This does not sound like a decision to be a sahm...this is about finding any excuse not to work.

I was referring to her being said to be attractive, having modelled and being always at social events such as brunches in terms of confidence, physical and social polish rather than necessarily going all in for nails and hair.

Certainly not looking down on SAHMs (different PP). I just think this plan leaves DD rather vulnerable. I don't mean vulnerable to destitution as I presume she will be provided for whatever happens. I mean to whatever her future husband's whims may be. I just think why leave yourself open like that at any time? It isn't all about money. Purpose and independence are so important mentally and the kids won't always need her.

As a lawyer and a GP did you soend a lot of the time out of the house when your children were growing? Maybe she doesn’t want that for her children.

Phd looks no better than a Masters - it’s work avoidance by many - unless academia is your thing or you have some other plan. I know quite a few PhDs who found their extra qualifications didn’t impress many employers. It’s too long in education without employment - you become institutionalised.

What exactly is it that you think a PhD is, other than a demanding FT research job? The one thing it isn't is 'work avoidance', unless you have extremely limited ideas about what constitutes 'work'.

Oh I don't disagree that the OP has valid concerns. But I don't like the part of her post where she says that her DD's education is 'wasted' if she wishes to be a sahm. A few others have said similar and tended to look down on sahms and childcare workers (not just those in dd's situation to be clear). It harks back to the past when women weren't worth educating as they were destined to marry and rear children.
Now women are highly educated, have more opportunities, more choices, very thankfully. But if DD chooses to be a homemaker that should be her and her DH's decision in this case.
I would worry too. What if things go wrong? What will she do later on even if they don't? But that doesn’t mean I think that women who look after chlldren (either their own or others ) aren't deserving of a good education (what's the point - it'll be wasted). And there is an undercurrent of that attitude in what I've read upthread.

Agree with you about the wasted education line. What a pity that being a sahm is somehow seen as a waste and I’m really depressed that some people don’t seem to think that the people looking after their children in nurseries and other settings need to be “educated”.

Look at Norland Nannies, educated to degree and diploma level and paid upwards of £100,000 and in huge demand. Great that some people still value education in child care practitioners.

Having said that, while I wouldn’t necessarily be disappointed if my daughters ended up as sahm’s, I would be disappointed if they didn’t work before having children.

I don't think raking over the OP's past potential mistakes is particularly helpful. I also think the level of privilege the OP's daughter has experienced is probably not abnormal for kids in boarding schools, not all of whom turn out to be layabouts (in fact, many have turned out to be members of our government in recent years!)

OP I think you are right to be worried. Her plan is bad. I think the best thing you can do is to try to talk to her about her future, how she sees it going, what her goals and reasons are. Crucially you must talk to her without judgment (or at least hiding your judgment). If you understand her rationale, you might be able to gently see a path through.

You might ask what the rush is to try for kids, what she expects to do when her kids are older, or have left home. She might not have a clear plan, so even encouraging her to get some clarity on how her life will be might assist her to make her own decisions. You might ask what her partner's view is (and work out how far these ideas are coming from him and the kind of life he would like).

I guess I would also gently raise the ideas that working toward your own goals outside the home is likely to be more fulfilling than only working in the home, that life is long (her peers won't be retiring for 50 years!) but children are only tiny for a short time, how much harder it would be to get a first job age 40 with stale qualifications, even maybe what feminists have fought for, would she want her own future daughters and sons to assume that mummies stay home, cook and get their nails done, and daddies work....

I agree with others that a PhD is a much better idea than a second masters. It will give her a better sense of purpose. However, she won't be able to start one this year unless she self funds (which I wouldn't encourage). Or why not encourage her to do unpaid internships in gallery work etc. Sadly, museum work is an area where it helps if you are wealthy enough to do lots of unpaid experience, so if she has no issue with this perhaps now is the time. It wouldn't prevent her trying for kids.

I also notice that in your responses to other posters, you are very clear that your daughter cannot be unhappy or anxious, cannot have had a bad time in uni, emphasising her popularity etc. I would encourage you to think about why you have a knee-jerk reaction against the idea that she is somehow scared or distressed. It might be because you feel that this reflects badly on you (but I don't think it would). It's possible that in discounting the idea that she might be having problems in your own mind, you are not opening up a space for her to talk about them with you. Honestly, most people in their early 20s are somewhat worried about their lives ahead. And your daughter's unusual decision to tune in and drop out does suggest a degree of anxiety and insecurity about life imho.

Good luck.

Dominic Cummings?

Look at Norland Nannies, educated to degree and diploma level and paid upwards of £100,000 and in huge demand. Great that some people still value education in child care practitioners

They're only educated in childcare, though, and with enough other stuff (identifying a dessert fork, cooking on an Aga, how to eat asparagus, cyber-security, basic knowledge of global events, a knowledge of other religious festivals and how to celebrate them with the children) aimed to cater to the predilections of the global rich and powerful who want a Norland nanny, dressed in a retro uniform like a character from Call the Midwife, as a status symbol.

Yes, you end up with a degree in childcare, but the academic requirements to get into Norland are low -- three Cs at A level, and it's not for your education in the usual sense of the term that you're being hired as a graduate. You're a successful brand.

I was basing my comments about her hair and nails on OP’s previous comments that her DD’s fiancé gives her DD an allowance to get her hair and nails done each week. Her appearance and maintenance of a very high level of grooming are clearly extremely important to him. Or to her.

Maybe not all boarding school girls are highly groomed, but this one clearly is.

The two things that stand out in this is that she has never had to earn her own money (so she might want to continue that) and could be fearful now of stepping into employment later than others, and also that you have paid for everything expecting her to do what you want her to do which is get a high-paying and high-status role. Perhaps none of this was for her in the first place. I'm sure you are disappointed, but not much you can do.

If this is a rapid u-turn on her previous plans then I possibly would be concerned, but it does sound to me like she is enticed by this life offered to her of not having to work too. Wait until the kids come, she might change her mind about staying at home!

@Carrydaily25

I had similar thoughts. I work in an affluent school and there are definitely a few children that spring to my mind with a similar set up at home. It doesn’t always bode for a good outcome. I’m not judging professional couples I often feel like work takes precedence with my own children at times, but it might have made her want to do the very opposite.

You have trained her to be a childish and dependent adult, and now she is going to play house with her new "daddy", who will pay all the bills. I can't think of much worse, but it is her life.

I have no issue at all with SAHPs, and I am a great fan of education for everyone. My concerns about this situation aren’t about the choice to become a SAHP, but all the circumstances around it - the daughter’s clear aversion to work, and her total lack of any work experience so far in her life; the power imbalance due to the difference in age and stage with her partner, which has a greater chance of leaving her vulnerable and needing to support herself in future; and the evident difficulties she would face if she ever had to fall back on her own resources, through circumstances changing.

I firmly believe everyone should live alone for a while, to learn how to do that, and should be self-supporting, and have the skills and experience to be so again if life suddenly changes. All the SAHPs I know have worked, established themselves in careers or at least gained relevant experience before temporarily giving up work while their children are small.

The daughter has not done and is not planning to do either. If her relationship was to break down, she has no experience to fall back on. A stream of taught postgrad degrees in non-vocational subjects, and never having done a day’s work, speaks clearly of someone avoiding hard graft. I took both my Masters degrees part time while working full time in the same field. It is not difficult. If she was serious about a life in academia, she would be competitively pursuing a PhD which relies on her own research. It is hard work! If she had a career in mind that she wanted to take up after her children, she would be making choices and getting experience now which would enable her to do that later on. But it’s this utter reliance on other people, and the expectation that it will always be the same, moving from the bank of daddy to the bank of sugar daddy, and no thought for or pride in providing even a little for herself, which is alarming and depressing. To be so confident that you are special enough that other people will want to support you for the rest of your life is very rare, I think, and I hope.

Employers do not value it as much as people think. It's great if you want to be an academic but it will not make someone more employable unless they are specialising in a work-related project. Speak to people with Phds who try to get a job outside academia - they struggle - a lot!

I agree with you @EbiRaisukaree. As I said the OP has valid concerns.

You said
I have no issue at all with SAHPs, and I am a great fan of education for everyone
while my remarks were directed at those whose comments indicate they may think otherwise.

It's not a bad idea to have your children in your twenties rather than later (it's a good idea in many ways). I'd be concerned about what OP will do when children no longer need as much of her time. Or if she finds being a sahp doesn't suit her. It's not for everyone. Concerned too about the power inbalance in the relationship, absolutely.

@ShineLikeA Like other degrees in early years and childhood education their course covers everything from psychology, neuroscience, child health and development, social sciences to education. Obviously they almost never wear the uniform while working and are mostly employed by parents who both work and who value education.

You might describe the minimum requirement of thee C’s at A level as “low” but surely you’re aware of where this level of academic attainment puts them on a national level ? Around a third of UK students don’t even get a 4 or above in GCSE Maths and English let alone progress to 3 C’s at A level.

Your post comes across as very dismissive of childcare professionals and frankly snobbish.

It is 'tradition' that a husband supports his wife and that stays at home to look after their children....