To find my friend’s parenting style intensely irritating

[Hormonehell1]

Lovely friend. Her DD plays with mine really well and I don’t mind having her (friends DD) at my house playing for the day.

My friend alone is also really lovely, we never run out of things to talk about and I admire her in many ways.

BUT… whenever we meet up as two families, her DD (7) nags her constantly wanting to be bought things sweets, toys, rides etc even if my friend caves in a couple of times, her DD will continuously nag her, strop, hit her, cry, winge and ruin days out through sheer negative vibes if she doesn’t get what she wants. My DD will observe her friend getting her own way and try it on with me but I say no and hold firm not wishing to open the nagging floodgates.

Recently, we went to Alton Towers and it had cost a lot to go there. When we arrived it wasn’t long before my friend’s DD was nagging her mum for toys, sweets, and asking repeatedly to go on the paid games where they can win teddies, despite the fact that we had been to the amazing swimming pool, had eaten in the cafe and had all the rides to go on.

My friend seemed irritated with me that I wouldn’t take my DD to the paid games and ended up caving and paying for my DD to go to them. I felt as though she thought I was being mean.

I just can’t spend another day with her being too soft on her DD and both kids waking around looking miserable because they’re trying to manipulate us in to getting what they want. Especially when these are expensive supposed to be special days out.

I think her DD is like this because she gives in eventually and is sometimes brought to tears by her DD who tells her she’s a “horrible mummy”.

I’m allergic to being manipulated and if DD says anything like that to me it makes me stand firmer in my NO.

I want to see her independently of her DD and I also want to facilitate my daughter’s relationship with her DD but I can’t bear their dynamic one more time!

I find that there is a lot of confusion over how kids actually develop resilience. Strangely enough, physical abuse, emotional neglect and other childhood traumas don't actually "toughen kids up" but lead to them having less resilience.

The point of parenting imo isn't to have kids who never piss anyone else off, it's to raise kids to be rounded, functioning adults. It's a long drawn-out process. And it's much more difficult to do than simply enforcing 'children should be seen and not heard'. Sometimes parents get it right, sometimes they get it wrong, and sometimes they have to change approach. Parents are often told 'pick your battles' but we're not going to get it right every time.

Think the kids would disagree!

I just don’t see the point of taking them somewhere that has all these treats on offer just to say no to the little things like sweets and have a fight on what is supposed to be a nice day out. Nice for whom?!

But ultimately it’s the parents’ job to set expectations and communicate them. Sounds like OP’s friends don’t or can’t be bothered.

All of this. You don’t need to be mean to your kids. The world is mean enough.

I don't disagree, but I would say that expensive doesn't necessarily make for a nice day out 😬.

The worst day out I've ever had with my 5yo was at a well-known theme park. We queued for hours for the rides, it was boring and hot and I did end up spending a fortune on ice-cream, toys and paid attractions just to avoid waiting in another queue! We only managed a few rides because the payoff for all the waiting wasn't worth it for my DC. We've had more exciting, less frustrating trips to our local playground and the only thing my DC remembers fondly about that day was the stuffed goblin they got from the gift shop.

@Thementalloadisreal

surely is good for children to learn that they can’t have every treat on offer though?

Completely agree, I'd be mortified if my kids ever joined the army to go off and kill people.

My grandparent fought in WW2 they knew the hardships and made their kids promise never to join.

My dad threatened too and was dragged to the recruitment office and embarrassed to hell by his (still serving) father declaring he wasn't allowed and they'd have to deal with him if they signed him up in front of everyone.

People have such bizarre rose tinted glasses but I'm from a family of Miners and Soldiers and frankly I pray non of my kids EVER have to face a job like either of those.

There nothing 'moral' in killing someone because the governments are disagreeing and rich people say you should to protect their intrests.

I have only been to Alton Towers once, we only got to go on TWO rides all day.

It was approx 2005 and they had a pre-book system to avoid queues but there where queues too book meaning by the time you booked one all others where booked. So we got to go on 1 rollercoaster and 1 fairground ride (which was queue based not booking based but took over an hour in the queue).

It was honestly the shittest theme park I ever been too. We spent the day wandering around trying to find stuff to do and it was really hot so we had to buy overpriced drinks to stop from passing out.

It wasn't Alton Towers but another of the big names. I think they're all much of a much and pretty dreadful. Absolutely dreadful experience for young children, despite having so many attractions aimed at them. You can't have rides for 4-8 year olds with queues of up to 2 hours, it's just not fair on the kids. They need to bring in some sort of ticketing system to book particular timeslots, but I guess they probably wouldn't be able to fit so many people in that way.

I won't be taking my DC back in a hurry, we've had a better time and spent much less money at literally every village green-type funfair we've ever been to.

I think this is part of the reason why parents end up buying all the extras actually. After spending all that money on tickets, you don't want to admit (to yourself/the kids) that the day out itself is pretty shit, especially if you're not well-off and have saved to afford the treat. So you end up spending more to salvage what is actually quite a stressful and not particularly enjoyable experience.

I generally find that those spouting that kind of rhetoric are very rarely the kind to ‘practice what they preach’. So generally I’m happy to write of them and their opinions as irrelevant noise.

No doubt the kids would disagree. But that's why the adults are in charge!
I'm sure the average 7 year old thinks it's a fabulous idea to spend money on tat they'll never look at again, eat shed loads of sugar and follow their nose into a pay for attraction, wasting time that could be used for rides. Maturity teaches you otherwise.
And the point? The point is the swimming, the rides, the shows. Surely you don't think all that's pointless if they don't also get a bought a bag of sweets with a Merlin logo?

It sounds like you have different parenting styles and budgets- maybe choose a different friend to go out with to activities

But on the other hand, why take your young child for a “nice” day out if you’re just going to say No to everything that they ask for on the day out ie. Things that would make it a “nice” day out from the child’s point of view - souvenirs, sweets, games, all part of the day out no? I don’t take my kids places just to then refuse them the chance to spend it how they want to, it’s their day out! Buy them an ice cream and play hook a duck ffs. You can say no for free at home.

I'm paying for the day out, which is already full of "nice" things. Of course they will try their luck for more nice things, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a nice day without them. Personally I will always buy my DD something, but usually say pick one thing, or give her a fiver to spend as she wishes. By default, she will not stop asking for any nice thing she sees, but that doesn't mean the expensive day out itself wasn't nice enough.

I wouldn’t worry about the other child’s ongoing influence on ops kid. Ops kid will likely drop the friends kid as a friend like a hot brick first chance she gets any choice in the matter.

I have two DC. One who never asks for anything and one who drives me utterly insane wanting absolutely everything he claps eyes on. The biggest success I've had is they now have a rooster card each. Before a trip they get £5 each on their cards. They can spend it or save it. Anything they want comes out of it. It slows the whiny one down as it makes him consider the cost and the other now has a healthy savings pot. It also deflects from "mean mummy" to self-responsibility.

Could suggest it as a friendly idea to your friend?

@Thementalloadisreal

exactly this!

Maybe I'm a bit like your friend OP! We don't go out much and to be honest my kids don't 'nag' but if we do grout somewhere 'big' and they ask for something then yes i do tend to let them have it. However I do tell them beforehand if I can't afford to do that sort of things this time and they normally comply

I understand what you are saying. If your are saying no because you can't afford it,then fair enough! But if its just because you think no because you just don't want to 'spoil them'and money isn't an issue then I think that's a bit mean. As mine have gotten older they ask for things less and less and I wouldn't say mine are spoilt. But equally we don't go out much! So horses for courses. If you are going on lots of outings, others might class that as spoilt. So either accept it or don't go with them.

Actually my mum was a no to absolutely everything so It might cloudy judgement and I like to make mine happy even if it is just sweets or that silly little puppet toy etc.

For the best days out, I find there's no need to buy lots of rubbish because my DC is so engaged in what we're doing that it's hard even to get them to stop for lunch. It's usually when visiting places that over-promise and under-deliver that we end up coming away with a bunch of rubbish. I think part of it is that some places like a lot of theme parks are so disorientating and overwhelming, and many attractions so inaccessible, that my DC eventually gives up on the main entertainment like the rides and focuses instead on smaller tangible things that can be accessed more easily, like an ice cream or a paid for basketball game.

@Thementalloadisreal I agree- if I’m taking kids on a big treaty day out then it’s a treat and I will say yes as much as possible. I don’t see the point in cups with Alton towers on or replica models of Blackpool tower, but they do and I’m taking them out for their benefit, not mine.

When I go out with my best friend and her kids (which could be 3/4 times a week in holiday time), we discuss before hand what the budget is- so I might say ‘I’ve got £50 and she might say she has £30, so we will decide what we can do for £80 for example.

Her kids are naggers in the extreme- she finds it hard to say no so she directs them to me and I do! They know I am fun and generous and love to spoil them as much as I can- but if I say no there isn’t any point arguing.

But if its just because you think no because you just don't want to 'spoil them'and money isn't an issue then I think that's a bit mean.

I hated that my mum and dad were like this when I was a child, saying no to ‘stuff’ unless it was a special occasion, reward or very occasional treat, but I’m so glad they taught me the value of money now. I had a friend who was like the OP’s friend’s child and the toys and ice creams became a brand new car at 17 while I had a secondhand one. They had the latest trendy clothes and best phones as they appeared in shops while I had to save up pocket money over months to buy them. She got into a lot of debt as a young adult while I had quite a lot of money saved by my early twenties. I never inherited or had hand outs from family (working class) but saved some birthday money every year (which was never much in total) and then prioritised saving a decent proportion of my very modest salary every month when I started working.

I will be trying to do exactly the same with my kids despite us being comfortable. They can dislike it now and thank me one day hopefully just as I’ve done with my folks.

I don’t think you’re being U. We had something similar with some of our DGC. Of course we were happy to “treat” them (despite our very limited funds) but my DH got treated like an ATM. What we did was get a little cashbag for each child and put the same amount in each bag and tell DGC that was their treat money, they could spend it today or take it home but when it was gone, that was it. Worked brilliantly. I wonder if your friend would agree for you both to do something like this?

So you’d rather spoil a nice day out with a fight about sweets than just say yes you can have some sweets (since it’s a special day you can choose which one you want etc) . Then continue having fun.

It’s not worth the time, energy or money to spoil the mood with a silly argument over something that means more to the child than the adult. We discount kids’ feelings so quickly, what’s nice for adults might not be nice for kids.

And I’d be furious if someone took me for a nice day out but then I wasn’t allowed a cup of tea all day because according to them it “should” be a nice day out without it!!!

@Thementalloadisreal you are assuming people can afford to buy all those extras.

I created rules about days out many moons ago and it still pays off now.. The day out itself is the treat. A gift from the shop only if it is the first ever trip there. Soft toy? It must be one we have seen that day. Sweets? With own pocket money of brought any. Drinks? - see car fridge for those! No lunch out see in afore mentioned fridge. Dc are now late teens and 20's and 1 is 34. No damage from being told no to spending my money like water!

Its not about whether someone should or should not treat their child, it's about having boundaries as a parent (or not). Judgy or not, children need clear boundaries and this friend clearly doesn't have them as the child is constantly whining and nagging. She's learnt this behaviour as she knows it works to get what she wants. The mother could agree certain treats with her child in advance, and OP could agree to none, explaining this to her dd in advance - not easy though to see another child get something she doesn't, but this could be resolved by bringing snacks / toys with her and by agreeing they won't do the same activities at all times.

However I think my solution would be to avoid seeing this friend in circumstances where these difficulties arise. Having kids does complicate friendships but you can work around it.

I'd probably arrange to meet the friend separately (without the kids) since OP says she enjoys talking to her, and maybe have the child over separately too. Or both, but only at OP's house. Make an excuse next time a big day out is suggested. Life is stressful enough without friends adding to it. I'd go on the theme park type outings with someone else or maybe just with my child so I could focus on them.

Telling her your opinion is likely to end the friendship.