To let my dad go home at the cost of my mum's well being?

[JustAllRoundShit]

A couple of months ago my dad (mid 80s) had a stroke. He requires full time care as he is very weak, can't get up or walk or do anything else himself. He's fully there cognitively but very apathetic in the day. Just wants to sleep all the time. When he is not sleeping he is very agitated, aggressive and very quick to anger with lots of shouting.

He is currently in a rehab home kind of thing. He seems to be slightly improving there but he absolutely hates it and wants to go home. I totally understand why. He's always been very independent and also very dominating. It must be terrible for him to be so out of control and helpless, completely at the mercy of the carers. I would hate it as well.

I think we could organise staff to look after him at home. It would take a lot of planning, lots of staff, money, etc but it's doable (we are not in the UK). The problem is it will be a massive burden on my mum. Massive responsibility, massive mental strain because he keeps yelling for her (and not very nicely) and I'm worried that she'll spend the last few years of her life (she's early 80s) being stuck by his bed, caring for him and basically just getting yelled at all the time.

I don't want that for her. She's done her bit for him her entire life (he hasn't been the best husband. Good father but very dominating, borderline abusive husband). For my mum it would be much better if he was in a home. Then she would be free. But he'd absolutely hate it. He keeps crying, begging me to let him go home. I just don't know what to do.

What would you do?

Yanbu: bring him home, while trying to set up the house so that he will trouble my mum as little as possible

Yabu: let him stay in a home and give your mum peace. She's done her bit and we can't expect her to take on this burden.

This is an insightful post

I don't think you should get your dad home, expecting your mum to be able to put in boundaries, when she has never been able to their whole marriage - and then you fuck off back to another country. 🙄Once he's home you'd have to drag him out kicking and screaming, surely? A week's trial is never going to be that.

Please do NOT bring him home for a week. He'll either end up staying for good or will be even more unsettled when he has to go back.

I'm appalled that you are even thinking of sacrificing your mum's wellbeing so that he can abuse her more. She, not you, has had to endure his abuse for decades. You don't "owe it to him". Why don't you feel you owe your mum anything? She can finally be free.

Everyone in his position says they want to go home. Coming home won't solve his problems and make him happy. He'll still be dependent on carers and physically unable to do things for himself. He'll still be frustrated and angry. The difference is that he'd be able to use your mum as a punchbag.

How can you even contemplate doing that to your mother? Do you want her to have a stroke too from the stress?

Your father is just going to have to deal with it I'm afraid. Sometimes care needs are too complex to be managed at home.

Do not under any circumstances have him go home as a trial, it will be much harder to get him back into the care home.

Give the poor woman a rest.

Without knowing the specifics of his care needs, the home situation and the laws of the country it’s hard to advise, but in this country it comes down to whether the person in question has mental capacity to make decisions about their own care and discharge destination (which if he’s cognitively intact he would do) and whether he owns his property. If so, there’s very little you can do to stop him going home to his own house. We come across this situation a lot in my line of work and it’s so distressing for everyone involved, but the only way you could stop him is if you felt your mum was in danger of being abused and if she consented to starting safeguarding procedures to keep him out of the house (assuming it’s jointly owned?). I hope you find a solution that works for everyone, I know how hard this must be! Is there a MDT at the rehab place he’s at now? In the UK you should be receiving support from the OTs, social workers and discharge coordinators to navigate this situation but I don’t know if you have that in your situation?

fully there cognitively but very apathetic in the day. Just wants to sleep all the time. When he is not sleeping he is very agitated, aggressive and very quick to anger with lots of shouting.

Before you do anything you should get him properly assessed and his medical condition tested, because agitated and aggressive could be the result of the stroke and may not improve. Although people do settle down. A relative was cared for (inadequately ) by his equally frail partner and although they hated being in a home once the partner died and kept demanding to go home, they couldn't as they needed 24/7care. They settled in, behaved better because their needs were being met (including diet as they had developed diabetes too at home and were not eating properly or getting to medical appointments) and soon got into a new routine.

Your trial solution is not really a solution as it sounds as if it would be a very temporary one, one which would put a lot of strain on your Mum, when the home situation will probably end up being what will happen anyway after a while. He would be looked after by someone who really isn't in a position physically or mentally to cope with him, which will be distressing for both of them. He will get to know his carers. He will have visits, proper diet and proper care and routine and that will be beneficial for him. My parent's generation thought putting someone in a home was a massive family shame, but its not like that anymore.
It must be very sad for you, seeing your DF diminished and as if he's losing his identity bit by bit, but I think you need to think of what is best for both of them.

In what sense is this a decision for either/both you and your mum? Is it not his house as well? Is it someone else paying for the care?

He has capacity. I would expect him to be leading the decision unless, for example, he can't fund it (in which case, do they need to sell?). Obviously the hospital couldn't do an unsafe discharge so he would need to organise the care package - sounds like that's what he's asking you to do? Is he better off asking someone else to do that for him if you don't want to?

Why is this your decision? They both have capacity, they get to decide.

He's 80. His health isn't going to get better. It's going to get worse. You are only delaying the inevitable. Your mum is old. She doesn't have the capacity to do the caring. If someone is late, sick or let's you down the care will fall to her. I think the home is the best option.

What's your mums disability that you get to choose? Honestly you might not like it but don't become your dad and start dictating what she should do. Support her in what she chooses

He needs to be in care home. Having carers in and out of your home isn't fair on your mum -she'll end up involved, her home won't be her own - and also puts the admin burden on her whilst he will still be suffering his rages and wanting her attention.

It will be much easier to organise from hospital as well. It will be worse for everyone inc your father if he goes home and leaves again. My aunt refused to have my uncle home when it became apparent he needed this level of care. It was her home too and she didn't want it to be bloody Open All Hours. They were the last few good years of her life and I'm glad for her that she didn't have the caring burden before she herself needed care.

It's not just about what the OP's mum "wants". She might want her husband home for the routine and the consistency and to have things back the way they always were.

But sometimes with parents in this situation the kids have to step up and think not about what the parents want, but what is practical and achievable. However much an 80 year old wants to be full time carer for their partner, the reality is that they physically cannot.

OP you have to take your mum out of the equation. Is it practical to arrange full time carers for your father, to do ALL of the difficult personal care of taking him to the toilet, showering him, arranging medication, dressing him etc etc etc? If not, then he can't come home because your mother simply can't do it.

It is really really hard, we recently went through this with my dad who had advanced dementia and a mum who thought she could cope, until she couldn't.

Let that poor woman rest!

Your two posts sounded quite different in tone. Post 1 made is seem like a no-brainer for him to go into home. Post 2 you seemed much more keen to go home despite knowing what it would do to your mother. The quote below struck me as being quite
oddly worded re the reality for your mum. She shouldn’t have to grow a thick skin and get used to being yelled at.

” I told her we can only bring him home if she can grow thick skin, ignore his yelling and continue going about her day, just looking in on him.”

I think if you want to have your Dad home, you should be looking to bring him to your country and look after him yourself. Your poor Mum has done her time, let her have some peace.

If you have him back for a week he's not going to want to leave and how will you get him out then? However if he has capacity then surely the decision will be up to him not anyone else? Is it really up to you what happens to him? That wouldn't be the case here at least.

Your parents both sound hugely emotionally manipulative, one crying to manipulate you into getting him back home, the other refusing to make any decisions so it is all very unfairly put on to you. Personally I'd leave them both where they are to sort it out between themselves and go home.

YAB massively U to bring him home and then swan off back to your home country leaving your mum with what sounds like a horrendous burden. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but that's the reality.

My mum cared for her own mother at home for 10 years and it was awful. Let her have some peace.

I don’t know what the laws are in your country but here in the UK if he has capacity then it’s a moot question. He gets to make the choice for himself, and rightly so. He might be the biggest shithead in the world but I firmly defend his right to choice. I want to be able to make MY own decision when the time comes.

That said I also respect your Mothers right to not have to deal with it, or his abuse. External carers and lots of ways for your Mum to walk away from him.

Letting her have the space she also needs it important.

A trial would be a horribly cruel thing to do to him. Giving him hope and then pulling the rug away is an awful thing to do. "Here's what you've been missing...we'll give you time to enjoy it and then snatch it away again"

Alternatively it fails and he never leaves. There's no way a trial will be successful.

Oops I voted the wrong one by mistake.

Your mum has done her bit. He must go in a home - he might hate it but it's his own behaviour that has led to it.

My dad is like this with my mum. Much as I love him I hope she gets some time without him as he is dominant and aggressive. ☹️

No way would I bring him home.
Id consider a different home if he hates the current one that much but no, I'd tell him it would be too much of a strain for your mum. It would be too much for her.

This.
Also he will probably refuse to have the carers change him, move him, feed him etc. They will be then be saying “oh we can’t do it now he’s refused. We’ll leave some dressings/pads (or whatever) for you do it.” to your mum. (Like the nurses did to me when they were coming to dress my disabled husband’s wounds. Then once they’ve gone, he’ll start shouting at your mum for her to do it.

I have been your mother, but I am 25 yrs younger. Do not do this to her.

My DH had a stroke last yr, age 61. Your father sounds very very similar to him in that he is very easily tired, argumentative, shouts and physically needs carers.

After going into the situation knowing, I thought, what it would entail, it nearly broke me. You cannot expect her to take abuse from her partner day in day out, it is hell. Even though you know it is their brain injury it is still living with constant abuse. Even with carers doing the physical side he will be demanding of her attention and time, and then make her feel worthless. I am projecting maybe but from what you described I don’t think I am.

DH got more and more frustrated and more and more demanding. It is the brain injury and it got worse not better as scar tissue formed, and as he became more and more upset by his new situation. Eventually he has had to move to a home as home became unworkable as I became depressed and anxious due to his behaviour towards me and our adult DC.

Please do not think that carers will stop this, it’s not the physical side it’s the emotional side. There does seem to be a lot of manipulation in some brain injury patients and it is very difficult.

Your mother cannot develop a thick skin. This is her life partner who she has loved and been loved by for many years, it is impossible not to be upset by their treatment of you, even though you know it’s “not them”

Do you have power of attorney?