To let my dad go home at the cost of my mum's well being?

[JustAllRoundShit]

A couple of months ago my dad (mid 80s) had a stroke. He requires full time care as he is very weak, can't get up or walk or do anything else himself. He's fully there cognitively but very apathetic in the day. Just wants to sleep all the time. When he is not sleeping he is very agitated, aggressive and very quick to anger with lots of shouting.

He is currently in a rehab home kind of thing. He seems to be slightly improving there but he absolutely hates it and wants to go home. I totally understand why. He's always been very independent and also very dominating. It must be terrible for him to be so out of control and helpless, completely at the mercy of the carers. I would hate it as well.

I think we could organise staff to look after him at home. It would take a lot of planning, lots of staff, money, etc but it's doable (we are not in the UK). The problem is it will be a massive burden on my mum. Massive responsibility, massive mental strain because he keeps yelling for her (and not very nicely) and I'm worried that she'll spend the last few years of her life (she's early 80s) being stuck by his bed, caring for him and basically just getting yelled at all the time.

I don't want that for her. She's done her bit for him her entire life (he hasn't been the best husband. Good father but very dominating, borderline abusive husband). For my mum it would be much better if he was in a home. Then she would be free. But he'd absolutely hate it. He keeps crying, begging me to let him go home. I just don't know what to do.

What would you do?

Yanbu: bring him home, while trying to set up the house so that he will trouble my mum as little as possible

Yabu: let him stay in a home and give your mum peace. She's done her bit and we can't expect her to take on this burden.

Anyone with savings over 25k pays all the costs until they no longer have over that amount. It’s not what you can afford in an ongoing way, if you have savings they are used. It doesn’t take into account that you actually need those savings to buy food and pay bills for the rest of your life. And if you need 2 carers you certainly aren’t going to be able to get a job. So basically you pay until you have 25k, then you live off that, then you live off benefits.

This is probably the first time your mum has felt free in her own home. If she wanted him home she would have told you.
Let her live the last years of her life without the burden of this man.

@Oldermum84

@Pigflewpast that equates to £52 per hour for a carer. Unlikely.

You are not allowing for the difference between what the cater is paid and the agency or whoever arranges them.

Why would you opt for that though, when in most cases it would be cheaper in full time care ?

Because he was my husband. Because he wanted to be at home with his family not in a care home full of old people. His quality of life came first.

BUT as my posts said it was not the right thing once his change in personality became obvious. It broke me. It is not IMO the right thing for OP father, who is much older than my DH and already abusive to his wife.

Again this is not correct. £23,250 is the upper limit for savings and other capital. Above this limit you pay all of your fees but once your savings/capital drop below this amount the LA will reassess. You will then pay based partly on your income, and partly on a tariff of £1 for every £250 you have in savings/capital above £14,250 up to the £23,250 threshold. The LA will pay whatever the shortfall. Once your savings/capital drop below £14,250, your contribution is based solely on your income, and the LA pay the shortfall. I think the point about your post was just that it gave the impression that everyone pays all of their care costs, when in fact everyone’s circumstances are different.

That’s the best reason there is.

I wish I’d stayed away from this thread. I never said everybody paid, I said we were quoted that amount. OP had said she would be self funding. I rounded the amount to 25k because I couldn’t be bothered to check the exact amount and I quoted what I was told by professionals.

I am now stepping back away as this thread is very upsetting to me due to the situation I have only touched on.

@Callipygion & @FinallyHere no I am not assuming that's what the carer would get. I'm talking about the hourly rate from the agency. Rates in my area are £22.44 (urban) and £25.52 (rural). This is very high as in the south east. These are local authority rates. The most expensive private agency in the area charges £29 per hour. No agency is charging £52 per hour.
As @Pigflewpast has now clarified, they stated the hours incorrectly, calls were longer than originally stated. All is well.

For all the people saying why would you bring him home and pay that, as said before if he has capacity and was in the UK this would be his choice. We are all free to make unwise decisions. In my opinion it would be inhumane to keep someone in a care placement screaming and crying to go home constantly. It's all very well saying he's abusive so it's his fault and the mum shouldn't have to deal with that but as the OP has said most of the abusive behaviour is due to his illness and frustration at his situation. Poor man. This is the same as the old institutions in the UK for the "mentally infirm" eg people with learning disabilities and down syndrome etc. You can't just lock people up against their wishes because you don't want to see or deal with them. Yes it's terrible for the mum but OP has said they can find affordable 24 care with 2 carers in the country they are in. This sounds best for all to me.

OP has also said that her father has been 'difficult' with his wife for a very long time and that her mother and a GP relative both said he shouldn't be home.

The OP didn't say the abuse is due to his situation.
She said he's frustrated by his current situation, but has been a borderline abusive, domineering husband for decades.

OP said he has been "borderline abusive". Who knows what this actually means. It is obviously subjective. This would not excuse locking him up against his will which the OP says would be "worse than death" for him.

Such a horrible situation. My DH's cousins are in a similar situation. They were a brother and sister who never married and so lived in the family home (with other siblings who have since died) and all they have left is each other. In their 80s - the male cousin started to show signs of dementia a few years back and became quite frail during lockdown. He recently had a bad fall and was taken to hospital, and then into a care home to convalesce. But they say he won't be able to come home without full time care and support.

His sister is devastated. He hates the home and wants to come back to the house where he lived all his life. He was a farmer and wants to be out of doors, but isn't mobile unless someone pushes him in a wheelchair. They could pay for a carer - but the sister would be constantly worried about him falling as the house has uneven floors and steps everywhere - plus he refuses to sleep downstairs. She would have to have a stranger in her house, and do their washing and feed them. She can't face it but feels guilty that she can't have him back - plus she is lonely and hates living alone. It's all so very sad - and really brings it home to you what difficult decisions have to be made, sometimes....

In your situation I think I agree that your Mum's needs are equally important, and your Dad needs to go into a home. But I know how hard that is. DH's Dad lasted three weeks in a home - he just faded away - and I expect his cousin will do the same. It's always so very sad.

I think that he should come home. It's his home and should be his decision, providing that he can receive the support that he needs at home. That decision needs to be made in conjunction his physiotherapist and drs re adaptions required. I think though, that he should at least be able to come home a day or two a week and see how he gets on first. As for your mother, it will be up to her how much she can take and how she will manage to get breaks from him or whether he is tolerable to live with. I think that a trial would be better, or failing that, an alternative more suitable home that he gets to choose. He needs and deserves to have a say in his own care, otherwise he is a prisoner.

@Oioicaptain

He needs and deserves to have a say in his own care, otherwise he is a prisoner.

While I agree with you in principle, and if the 'DF' lived alone they should be granted their wish to go home and try and cope with carers.

However, in this case the needs of the 'DM' also deserve to be addressed, occupy their home in peace without any abuse.

Even if she had accepted an abusive situation pre this latest issue.

It would be naive to say that she should just ignore any unreasonable demands and let the carers get on with it.

Doesn't it in practise always seem to be women who are expected to pick up the slack, to put other people's needs ahead of their own. For a new born, that might well be the case. For an adult who has already demonstrated their selfishness, I don't know why it would even be contemplated.

Well, I do know.

It's the guilt women are socialised to feel, which so conveniently for the rest of society makes women step up to help others, at the expense of their own health. They help others, even family members who selfishly put their own needs ahead of the needs of others.

Yes, this thread has made me cross, they very thought that in a situation where his needs conflict with hers, a child would ever consider propitiating their 'D'F at the expense of their DM.

In a home. Don't do that to your poor mum.

I agreed with every word you said.

I couldn't begin to imagine sacrificing my mum for an abusive man like that. It's disgusting
How gaslight-y is that??

I'd most definitely put my mum first in that situation.

This! He's been borderline abusive for years and now wants back in the house to be looked after. You reap what you sow.

I hope your mum can enjoy some years of peace and quiet in her own home.

Completely agree.

It is absolutely morally bankrupt IMO, to consider putting a borderline abusive man back into a situation where his victim for decades resides, for more of the same.

For a daughter to do this????

I cannot get my head around such a complete lack of care and regard for the victim of decades of borderline abuse.

Your own mother.

I think it is an utterly shameful idea to allow him to return home.

Your poor mother, what a life she has had.

God help her.

You clearly favour your father in character and personality that you would be so dismissive and cavalier of her opportunity for a bit of peace finally, for her remaining time on earth.

This is such an awful thread.