To let my dad go home at the cost of my mum's well being?

[JustAllRoundShit]

A couple of months ago my dad (mid 80s) had a stroke. He requires full time care as he is very weak, can't get up or walk or do anything else himself. He's fully there cognitively but very apathetic in the day. Just wants to sleep all the time. When he is not sleeping he is very agitated, aggressive and very quick to anger with lots of shouting.

He is currently in a rehab home kind of thing. He seems to be slightly improving there but he absolutely hates it and wants to go home. I totally understand why. He's always been very independent and also very dominating. It must be terrible for him to be so out of control and helpless, completely at the mercy of the carers. I would hate it as well.

I think we could organise staff to look after him at home. It would take a lot of planning, lots of staff, money, etc but it's doable (we are not in the UK). The problem is it will be a massive burden on my mum. Massive responsibility, massive mental strain because he keeps yelling for her (and not very nicely) and I'm worried that she'll spend the last few years of her life (she's early 80s) being stuck by his bed, caring for him and basically just getting yelled at all the time.

I don't want that for her. She's done her bit for him her entire life (he hasn't been the best husband. Good father but very dominating, borderline abusive husband). For my mum it would be much better if he was in a home. Then she would be free. But he'd absolutely hate it. He keeps crying, begging me to let him go home. I just don't know what to do.

What would you do?

Yanbu: bring him home, while trying to set up the house so that he will trouble my mum as little as possible

Yabu: let him stay in a home and give your mum peace. She's done her bit and we can't expect her to take on this burden.

Sorry, this is very difficult for you but you have answered your own question in the thread title. If you let your Dad go home it will be "at the expense of your Mum's well-being". Your mother is 80 please let her live at peace now.as she deserves.

Your mum has said what she wants. Whist you say you get the final decision, you don't live there and I think it's only fair to listen to her. She's the one that will have to live with him. Your dad may scream and not be happy - but in time he will get into a routine and settle.

Your dad will be miserable if he stays there. Your mum will be miserable if he doesn't.
Given what you've said about his behaviour both before the stroke and now, I would prioritise my mum in that situation.

I’d also like to point out that having your father shout and carry on WILL negatively impact your mother, regardless of who his target is, and even if she stays out of his room.

Her heart rate will increase, her stress levels will skyrocket… it will absolutely take a physical and mental toll on her health. She’s had DECADES of knowing that when your father is in a temper, she bears the brunt of his negative behaviour. There’s no ‘growing a thicker skin’ over decades of learned behaviour. It’s literally her reflex reaction of her nervous system now. You can’t flip a switch and unlearn that. Yelling = bad things happen.

Make no mistake: verbal abuse leaves deep scars.

And you KNOW that bringing him home will harm her. It’s right in your title. What you’re asking is if you’re justified in sacrificing your mother for your father.

Your mother doesn’t deserve to be set on fire to keep him warm. She NEEDS to not live with an abusive spouse. She NEEDS to feel safe in her own home. She NEEDS to have her daughter listen when she’s already sad she doesn’t want him home, that she can’t handle it. Your father WANTS to come home.

Needs outweigh wants. Always.

You’re being ridiculous op.
set your mother free

mine didn’t even make 80 and a lot of that was stress. You don’t know how long she has left.

If you insist on doing a trial at home can your mum move out for a few weeks - either come stay with you or just anywhere out of the house. Then you’ll know whether him being at home without massive amounts of help from your mum is actually achievable.

I have been in your position... although my father was lovely not abusive. However, I knew that the toll it would take on my mother if he was at home would be too much. For months every night she called me and cried and said she was going to 'bring him home tomorrow'... but she didn't. It was incredibly distressing. She visited every day for hours but could walk away. It was the right decision.

Of course no one deserves this end but the brutal truth is that what you are facing is an incredibly common way to end. But no one should be sacrificed for someone else and actually his past behaviour doesn’t matter even if he were the best husband in the world before the way he is now it just isn’t fair on your mum.

the impact moving on him is far less than the impact moving would have on her. He would still be impaired and need 24 hour care, he would still feel the frustration and upset that he is no longer what he was and the changes and impact of the stroke. He still couldn’t do anything for himself and the fact he is at home the measure of improvement on his life though there is not that great.
moving home however would impact your mum a whole lot and bring her down and negatively affect her a lot.

and that is what you have to weigh up. When it is my turn right now I would stay in the home and not impact my family. Both my parents (having seen their parents) say the same thing

it is an awful choice to make but one you are not alone in having to make and keeping him there is on balance the right thing to do

Don’t kill your mum just because you can’t handle the guilt. Of course he’s going to show you how awful it is, but when you’re not there he’s probably fine. It IS awful for you but making life hell for both of them won’t help AND when he (inevitably) has to go back into a home that would be even worse.

You’ve said he’s abusive so he knows how to play on everyone’s heartstrings to get what he wants now. He will take out all his anger on his usual punch bag (your mum). Give her the break she deserves for the remainder of her life. She’s been under his control for too long and deserves to be free.

Unfortunately he has to stay where he is for all the valid reasons people have mentioned- I was in same position it’s not easy when you don’t live in the same country either

This. My main thought has been, if OP is so hell bent on sending the father home, mum should leave. If he's able to be cared for 24 hrs a day by staff, then let it be so.

Or is what he's missing in the care home the fact that he doesn't have the outlet for his frustrations around all the time to shout at?

Obviously she's put up with this her whole life, but even she has said she doesn't want him coming home if this is the state of his health. You want her to ignore his shouting at her, in her own home, day after day, so that HE is marginally less unhappy.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it's her life, too.

Truth be told the UK care system is so broken that many who go home to be cared for end up being cared for by family not paid caters. Those family meme era then get paid next nothing & penalised or tarred as feckless wastes of tax payers money by a biased benefits system that should support them to provide the care their family member needs.
Places in actual care homes that are in any way decent are few & far between too & the cost for that care is extortionate as the companies that run them are all private companies more concerned about profits!
Many lose their homes, that they have worked hard to have, to cover their care.

For me this situation is a head over heart.
By the sounds of it your dad is, right now, better off in a place where care is 24/7 & your mum can visit him.
If I was you I would go this way & allow mum to visit, if she wants to, then try to make things at that place as homelike as possible for your dad.

Going forwards I would gage the possibility of dad coming home on his physical & mental state, the care staff observations & knowledge & your mums wishes.

This is such a hard situation to be in & I wish you, your mum & your dad all the best for the future, whatever that may be X

Thanks everyone for your replies.

@JustAllRoundShit it’s hard but keep your father in a care home. The equipment you’ll need at home will be bulky and may not be easy for your mother to operate if the carers are late or absent. If he shouts at your mother she’s going to be stressed and will she be able to retreat somewhere out of earshot? If he gets I’ll or his care needs change, in a care home they’ll adapt to his needs as things change.

We organised carers for my mum to begin with, she wouldn’t accept a 24-hour carer or a cleaner. We were taking meals to her. Eventually as her cognitive skills declined, it just wasn’t possible to leave her alone. She was sometimes lucid, sometimes hallucinating about people being in her home.

We asked her to go into a care home for a few days and try it out. She didn’t like it but as she had voluntarily signed herself in, they were able to keep her. It was underhanded but the safest place for her. Though hard to keep parrying the questions about when she would be able to go home.

Surely it is your Mother's decision and not yours?

@Pigflewpast that equates to £52 per hour for a carer. Unlikely.

Firstly, this is an incredibly difficult situation for all.
Secondly, you father needs to have a full proffessional physical and psychiatric assessment before any decision is taken.How much is depression contributing to his anger. It needs to be assessed whether or not he has the capacity to make a fully informed consent., including the outcome of any decision, and the consequences Your mother needs a carers assessment.

I worked with a couple. The lady has advanced Dementia. The gentleman was very able, loved company and was very active. The outcome was that the lady was admitted to a residential home, which had a separate Dementia unit. The gentleman chose to be admitted the the main part of the home. They saw each other several times a day,shared meals , entertainment, and said goodnight at bedtime. They both survived and thrived. She had the care she needed, and continued to recognize her husband for a long time. She accepted the carers and gradually relaxed, needing little medication. Her husband continued his active life for many years.

Sometime there is an alternative x

Yep. That’s about £10,000 a year more than a relative is paying for full time care in a nursing home !!

I think you’re confusing care home costs with care at home. The former includes an assessment of all your assets, including the home you live in, and the latter is based on income and savings. My aunt pays £4000 a month for full time care in a home, and the figure you’ve given suggests that it would cost just under £5000 a month for two carers four times a day, which would be totally unaffordable for most people.

The maths was done by the OT and I’m not spending time checking it now. We only had one agency with availability in our area. Their hourly prices per carer were £29.49 Mon - Fri. £33.62 at weekends and. £44.44 for bank holidays. Looking at it they wouldn’t do 15 min visits so all were half hour and 1 was hour each day as that is what they said was needed.

And yes it is completely unaffordable for most people, even if the original maths was incorrect.

Sorry to derail your thread OP it’s a shame that’s what was picked up from my posts rather than my depression and my life falling apart due to trying to do myself what you are asking of your elderly mother.

Pigflewpast · Today 09:20
Sorry to derail your thread OP it’s a shame that’s what was picked up from my posts rather than my depression and my life falling apart due to trying to do myself what you are asking of your elderly mother.

That’s very unfair. There are some very sad stories here including your own, and I’m sure we can all empathise. But you posted about the two issues separately and several people picked up on your post about costs because the figures you quoted give the wrong impression.

Home care is based on what the individual can afford to pay and the financial assessment does not include the clients’ own home as part of their assets.The total cost of the care at full price may be £57000 a year but the client will only pay a contribution towards it, based on what the financial assessment says they can afford according to their income and savings, and keeping in mind the various thresholds below which the LA has to provide more funding. Your post suggested that the clients are responsible for the whole of the care bill, and that’s not correct, which is why you were picked up on it.

We were responsible for the whole care bill. And OP has said she would be, although we have no idea what costs are in the country involved.

You are assuming the carer gets all that. They won't! That's what the care company charge.

Over a year ago we were quoted around £2500 PER WEEK for 1 live in carer plus a pop in carer 4 times a day. If the patient requires moving or hoisting they won't do it on their own, there has to be 2 people. Other quotes were up to and over double that.