AIBU to marry for some financial security for me and the children?

[foolsgolddigger]

Long-time user but with a new account, as the matter is a bit sensitive.

I am a nearly-40 single mother of two young children, with no maintenance from their father (long story, he is reasonably well off, but it is cleverly arranged so the official maintenance is nil). He left when the children were toddler / newborn age.

I have a good, but quite stressful and long-hours career, and a reasonable income. The income does not stretch far in London though (rent north of £2K, childcare north of £1K + everything else on top), and my job does not exist outside London. I don't get any help from the government for anything apart from the 25% single person council tax discount, before everyone jumps on. I am solvent and not in debt, but that's about it. Some months end in the "red" - a school trip or unexpected dental expense usually have to go on credit. I didn't have a holiday (not an exotic holiday, but even a break from work) for 8 years. No pension or savings.

Recently I got closer with a guy I dated in my early 20s (he is a few years older than me, mid-40s). For him, I am (as strange as it sounds for me) "the one who got away", and he apparently carried very strong romantic feelings for me through the years. He has never been married or in a long-term relationship, and never moved out of his parental home. We stayed friends, but more of a "text once a month" friends - not surprisingly, as we are in different countries (he lives back in our home country, and I moved to the UK). I have very warm and friendly feelings for him, somewhat nostalgic, but that's it. He's a great guy and a good friend, but there is absolutely zero romantic or sexual attraction from my side.

He proposed to me last week and I asked for some time to think. And - I am very ashamed to admit - one of the main factors on the "pros" side was to have a second income in the house. I have never been materialistic (quite opposite - very bookish, nerdy and idealistic), so it took me by surprise, and I started feeling a bit disgusted about myself. He is not wealthy, but has a good freelance income (tech sector), roughly at the same level as me. It would be a massive change to our quality of life though, and will open some opportunities to my children that I am currently not able to cover. For clarity, I do not mean him paying for my children, but even just sharing normal living expenses of a couple would make such a difference - and I could start contributing to my own pension and saving.

I am not attractive at all and has never been asked out in my life or visible to men, so it is not a "plenty of fish in the sea" scenario. It is very unusual for me to feel loved and adored to this level, and I feel really bad that I cannot offer the same intensity of feelings in return. If I could electrocute my brain and fall in love with him, I'd do it immediately without a second thought. I think he is aware - he told me he loved me multiple times, but I did not say it back.

Do you think it could work if I "settle"? "Settle" is probably not the right word here, as I am not really looking for other options now, and my realistic expectation prior to reconnecting with him was that I would be single for life.

Out of interest, what would not be considered "mooching"? No mumsnettters expect their partner to contribute to household bills, ever? Only a relationship where the woman pays 100% of rent and bills is considered genuine and pure, the rest is golddigging?
He's not working now so he won't be able to quit working after marriage.

No - I am nearly 40 and done with the children.

Are they better growing up without things and experiences their peers have, with a mother who they see for a few hours per week maximum?

I already work two jobs (one permanent full time, one ad-hoc part-time contracting on weekends and evenings), and for me +£2K net is around +£3.5K gross due to tax - it is unlikely that I will find a third job for a few hours a month that pays that.

That being said, I do not treat this potential marriage as a job, obviously. But not as a fairytale either.

How did he get into the country if he does not have a job? I thought he would need to be earning above a certain salary and have a sponsor here. I run a department of a university and there are quite strict rules we need to meet for bringing in academics from overseas. We wouldn’t get a part-time member of staff in; a visiting professor maybe but that is short-term. Equally if he has next to nothing in the bank, how has he secured a rental property. I need to act as guarantor for my DD at university.

That apart, it sounds like his life has been facilitated by his mother and his cousin, and within that, he has been able to work now and then on things he enjoys which pay well. But does not himself have a clue how to operate as a functioning adult. You are going to have to take over from his mum and cousin and bring him up to speed. Don’t you think they have tried this already? I know people love to blame other women for a man’s shortcomings, but are we really suggesting here that his mother has not tried to make him take some responsibility and understand adult life?

I am a single working parent as well, so I know how hard it is. I am not sure I have the bandwidth to teach another person how to adult aside from my own DC. Many posters on here said it would be like having another child, which is true it seems. What you describe is predictable. His cousin knew how to get him contracts and all of the stuff which brought the money in - do you have that knowledge? Does he?

You know, what we need in this country is a way to make deadbeat dads pay 50% for their children. Then you wouldn't be in this situation, OP.

With each post you make, it's clear that you're intelligent, rational and you sound funny and witty too.

Is your thinking about this relationship any worse than someone who moves their new man in after two weeks without knowing him at all?? Of course not - how can it be?

Why not ask your p to move in and see how things go?

Good luck. I wish you happiness.

OP, this is utter madness to even consider.

Many children grow up with love and kindness, without an abundance of things and experiences, to have good successful lives.

Do not bring this man into your home.

I think it would be a profoundly misjudged move.

His cousin has been his carer.

Marrying him would be not in your childrens best interests.

You are spectacularly in denial if you think all the help he needs at age 40 is just a bit of learned helplessness.

He is basically completely oblivious to how the world works at it's lowest level.

Stop forcing yourself to have sex with a man with profound special needs and stop trying to talk yourself into a situation which will morph into a far worse situation than you are in now.

I was quite open minded earlier OP.
But now I’ve read your updates I think you’re walking into a trap and even more difficulty.
Try find other solutions to your financial stress, not add a man child to your already complicated life.
For example: you mentioned childcare was a big monthly outgoing costing thousands off your net income. If your kids are school age how about having a live in Au Pair?
They don’t do housework but they’re cheaper than a nanny/childminders as they’re supposed to get time off for study, only need to help with taking kids to school, pick up and feed them till you’re home. You may even be able to sponsor someone from your home country that’s looking for the opportunity.
Win Win! A nice girl who will be kind to your kids, may even help them practise your mother language and a lot of headspace for you knowing the drop off/pickup and feeding part of daily life are taken care of.
I don’t know 🤷‍♀️
If your kids are too young and not yet at school bear in mind it does get easier when they start: the financial burden with childcare will lessen.

I would rather grin and bear that for a couple more years than be stuck with a man I’m not attracted to and who on top is not even able to function like a normal grown up.
Don’t do it!

Enabling your partner to earn, will not be a couple of hours a month either,... Unless his cousin continues to work for him, you get a cleaner, he has his own admin PA.

From what you have said, he is high maintenance. And you have to invest a lot of time.

This guy is your friend. And he seems like a decent friend. That's super valuable too- and I'd keep it that way.

Basically you need a “wife” to manage YOUR life. That could be an au pair plus a cleaning person or maybe you can pay extra to the Au pair if she’s willing to do it.

Young kids specially don’t care for “things”, all they want is stability, love and affection. If you can remove some of the daily “noise” that’s leaving you exhausted and contemplating such a dreadful marriage please bear in mind that as they grow older they will not thank you for more “things” if they came with a man who took up the little headspace you have left to function and who added absolutely nothing of real value: not even making their mum happy…
You’re stressed, you’re tired.
Better to give the little headspace you have left to other more practical solutions: this includes also looking for other work that provides some remote working/flexible hours and hopefully higher pay. Kids grow up faster than you realise now. Useless 40 yo men don’t grow up.
Ever.

I've followed this thread from the beginning with interest, pondering what I might do in your situation. As it was initially presented, a guy with good values, a deep friendship, and financial security I was more on the side of marry him.

Now, with the added information that he literally can't do anything for himself, and you'd probably need to invest more effort into parenting him then your own children, I have to say even if I fancied him, loved him, and he had millions in the bank there wouldn't be a stronger FUCK THAT.

This can't work with the combination of total and utter helplessness from him, no respect love or sexual attraction from you, and actually no money. He doesn't even have the earning potential you thought without his cousin setting it all up for him!

Time to call it a day

Are they better growing up without things and experiences their peers have, with a mother who they see for a few hours per week maximum?

You're posing this question as if the only possibilities are the above or you being with this entirely unsuitable man.

And tbh yes, I think that probably is preferable to the bizarre set up you're considering.

He doesn't have to have a work visa or a sponsor to just come here - only if he decides to stay permanently for more than 6 months. We're not at that stage quite yet, he's going back and forth and I am trying to arrange some interviews.

We paid the rent upfront for 6 months (up to the break clause expiry), it is quite standard (was partially funded from some money he had left, I got a small loan to cover the rest).

I could help him with work admin - there's no specialist knowledge needed, just googling vacancies and then following up with the recruiters and tracking the days he worked to send time sheets. But I see no reason why his cousin cannot continue doing this for him - if it was an arrangement that everyone was happy with (even if by omission), why not to continue.

I haven't met his mum in person this time (as I haven't been back home yet, and she doesn't travel), but from the memory I have of her I don't think it is likely that she has ever encouraged even a tiniest degree of independence in him. She clearly loves him very much, probably even a bit too much so that it becomes possessive and no other woman is good enough for him. It is another difficulty we have now, but the one I think we will be able to deal with as time passes.

It was a surprise to me as well, that there is absolutely no way to enforce child maintenance in the UK if the father is not on PAYE, and that the court will not take into account actual lifestyle and even the bizarre fact that the respondent can pay for a partner-level barrister for a hearing, but, alas, cannot afford to pay any maintenance at all.

Well, my children do not have love and kindness at the moment either. Not more than for a few hours a week, they are farmed out to childcare / babysat by tv and minecraft otherwise.

I am not bringing him into my home, I think this is out of the question for the next year or even few years, until he is able to stand on his two feet independently. He does not have profound special needs, no need to make a monster out of me.

So you have taken out a loan for him to have somewhere to stay here? Which is costing you money rather than relieving your financial burdens. Hopefully this will be repaid by him working.
If the cousin will continue to do the work admin, this indeed makes sense.
Is it clear that what he can earn will cover his living costs, your loan repayments and his cousin’s fee?
I think you are quite determined to proceed with this arrangement regardless of what anybody says, so good luck to you. Hopefully this man will indeed learn to be a responsible adult, without costing you anymore than he has already done.

It was a surprise to me as well, that there is absolutely no way to enforce child maintenance in the UK if the father is not on PAYE, and that the court will not take into account actual lifestyle and even the bizarre fact that the respondent can pay for a partner-level barrister for a hearing, but, alas, cannot afford to pay any maintenance at all.

It's shit and totally unfair. You have my sympathy.

I am most certainly not making a monster out of you, but he DOES have profound special needs if at 40 he has absolutely no idea how a bank works and how to navigate even the most basic of human transactions.

You have taken a loan out for HIS accommodation?

Absolute madness.

I wish you well but your reasoning is deeply flawed.

Lots of children are in childcare and see little of their parents through long hours and shift work or working away from home and travelling for work.

That does not mean that they are not deeply loved and know it.

People do their best with their circumstances, even if they have to work hard long hours, and their children still know they are 100% loved by virture of the calm, safe home they reside in, no matter how small or plainly furnished.

They base this on how they are spoken to and the expressions on the face of the person who looks after them.

Love isn't piano or tennis lessons, if it was it would be a lot bloody easier to be a good parent for many.

We paid the rent upfront for 6 months (up to the break clause expiry), it is quite standard (was partially funded from some money he had left, I got a small loan to cover the rest).

Oh OP 😞

You took out a loan to fund this?

He's already costing you money.

He's already costing you emotional labour.

He's already taking up headspace in what you say are very few hours you have to spend with your children.

This is all absolute madness.

Thank you. I considered an au pair when the children started school, but the pocket money + the incremental cost of renting a place with one additional bedroom for the au pair is higher than the wraparound care. We are in a 2.5 bedroom house now (formally a 3 bedroom, but 0.5 is an ex-broom closet, there's no space for an adult sized single bed, only a child sized one). Upgrading to a 4-bedroom house to allow space for an au pair does not sound realistic at the moment.

Oh wow OP. I commented early in the thread and didn't look again until today.

If this is real then you are effectively adopting an adult with significant support needs. Yes, he appears to have skills which (carefully managed and supported by you) might give you both a decent lifestyle, but you are taking on the carer role his mother and cousin previously filled, but with sex thrown in.

As I said before I'm not against transactional relationships, but when you say your children need a father, is he the father you want to give them? Is literally any man better than none? And I still question whether he will be contribute anything financially - he has got this far without amassing anything and he is already draining you financially.

He's already taking up headspace in what you say are very few hours you have to spend with your children.

I agree

Sit down and figure out what really matters to you - does he tick those boxes? Romantic love fades and there are plenty of arranged marriages that work. If he walked away today never to return, how would you feel? There is nothing wrong in considering someone’s financial stability in making your partner choices- you would be foolish to land yourself with a skint lazy loser. Sit down with him and have a serious talk about whether he wants kids, how would financiers work, house hold chores etc. plans for retirement , will you be buying a house together eyc. It all seems a bit naive at the moment. Marriage is a contract

I never said that I am looking for anything more than an equal financial partnership, it is not like I am standing with a calculator in my hand trying to figure out how much I will be able to squueze out of him with no input from my side at all.

I am a bit surprised that so many mumsnetters do not see any value at all in having a second income in the house - even at expense of some personal inconvenience, and yes, with joint expenses that come with it too, and the need sometimes to support the other party. But I am (genuinely) amazed at women who can do it all by themselves, with zero outside help. Career, savings and pension, cover absolutely all expenses themselves - rent, bills, childcare, food and clothes, everything! At the same time be a loving and attentive mother, and also be a desirable enough partner to have a queue of highly eligible suitors to choose from.

I am weak and I must have just failed at life, I can't do it all, I am doing this feminism thing wrong somewhere.

If this is real then you are effectively adopting an adult with significant support needs. Yes, he appears to have skills which (carefully managed and supported by you) might give you both a decent lifestyle, but you are taking on the carer role his mother and cousin previously filled, but with sex thrown in.

Well said.

And he's already literally cost you money.

This is a man who proposed to a woman with children despite not having established a proper relationship with those children or gotten to know them properly.

That's a mark of either huge immaturity or a complete lack of care when it comes to those children.

It's all utterly bizarre.