Who's in charge of arranging the funeral - siblings or adult children?

[RH13]

Earlier this year a relative died of a sudden and short illness at 56. He was divorced with two adult children with whom he had a normal loving parent-child relationship.

He had 4 siblings, and they decided from the outset and without any debate that they were to be in charge of all the funeral planning, undertakers, wake, obituary, etc.

His siblings would not let his children have any role in deciding the funeral service, music, readings, photos, logistics, etc.

They also arranged the funeral on the wedding anniversary of one of his children. I don't think this was deliberate but it goes to show how little consultation they gave the children.

They have also had his locks changed and said the children can't access his house without their permission. And they have informed his neighbours, who have new spare keys, not to let the children in if they ask. I don't know if it's relevant or not, but no will has been found.

Is it normal for siblings to take precedence over adult children in these matters? (If so, then I guess it's YABU for this). I am fortunate not to have had to deal with this yet so my knowledge is lacking here. Wouldn't the children be next of kin in his case?

No, this is what the OP says. He (and his siblings) are my cousins - my mum and their late mum were sisters. 'He' here must mean the deceased.

Surely this ^

I am so angry for those kids - who are actually adults. At a time they're presumably grieving, their aunts and uncles are obviously planning with malicious intent.

Is the house 100% definitely owned in the deceased’s sole name? As the only legal justification would be if it was a jointly owned family property owned as joint tenants with siblings. You can check the land registry title here:
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

what justification did they give for locking the children out the house to you?

The oldest adult child would be next of kin. The siblings have nothing to do with it. The children need to seek legal advice asap.

The adult children are the next of kin. It’s concerning the locks have been changed and they can’t enter their deceased father’s house. I would urge them to see a solicitor.

They would have to apply for 'letters of administration'. They'd only be able to apply for probate if there was a will, and then they'd be legally entitled to deal with the estate. As the father/brother was intestate, they can't legally deal with the estate until they've been granted letters of administration.

I would throw my toys out of the pram on this. You are next of kin in law. They are not. He did not make them executors either. In the absence of a will and instructions on executors, you and your sister are the default people for handling his estate and his affairs including probate, his bills etc. Any suggestion that his siblings are restricting your ability to do that and trying to gain from his estate would be a serious offence. They have no right to lock you out / change locks etc. Sadly, if they won’t listen to you when you are gentle then you need to threaten legal action or the police.

The adult children as they are next of kin.
Siblings would only be involved if there was no other next of kin.

This is incorrect. Both children are equally next of kin. Their relative ages don't come into it.

Siblings supporting the adult child in planning, and even children choosing to delegate some tasks to siblings-yes, totally normal.

Siblings planning the funeral, arranging house situation etc- not normal at all.

If the children are adults, and next of kin, they need to take legal advice and action. They can also break the locks/get a locksmith and access the home. They should do that ASAP.

This is terrible! You need to tell your cousins to step back immediately and let his daughters take over. How dare they ban them from the house!!!
His DCs need to instruct a solicitor asap.

So the siblings genuinely think their course of actions is normal/right, they're not denying anything, they just think they have precedence.

They absolutely don't have precedence and the advice to the Adult Children to see a lawyer is a very good one They need to do it ASAP, before things disappear etc. Like tomorrow. Honestly

I also don't believe they aren't trying to get whatever assets etc they want since they have locked the children out of the house. That is absolutely appalling

It’s just bizarre to do this because they can’t simply not follow the law. Unfortunately until probate has been granted the kids don’t yet own the house. However, the siblings are essentially squatting. At least they can’t sell it as they can’t prove any entitlement. Who registered the death and has the death certificate(s) in their possession?

If there was no will, under the rules of intestacy his children inherit the house and should obtain a death certificate and apply for a Grant of Letters of Administration to the probate court ASAP.

https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/apply-for-probate

They also need to seize the house from the siblings and ensure that the children take charge of back accounts.

*bank accounts, and other assets

If it was earlier this year, why hasn't it come to a head before now? The siblings taking control isn't an usual course of events but the fact the children seem to have passively accepted it hints there may be a backstory. Most DCs would not have acquiesced.

funeral director would have taken instruction for the funeral on the basis of the party giving instructions is liable for the costs

This is why family of poor people are advised not to organise a funeral themselves unless they are 100% sure that there is enough money in a bank account to cover the costs.

Even then some costs are not classed as burial costs. The bank would not issue payment for the costs without the legal paperwork to prove the person making the payment request had legal authority to pay costs to a 3rd party.

This sounds a bit like what happened to my mum's neighbour but it was even more craxy.

She was unmarried and childfree. Her will left her house/property to three relatives and friends in equal shares. She had cancer and so went into a care home for about a month at the end of her life.

But a grabby neighbour somehow inveigled himself into her life, visited her in a care home in her last weeks, got the care home staff to witness some sort of document (in total breach of normal rules in care homes) and nicked her car! And he arranged her funeral - even though the funeral people were told he wasn't the next of kin, they said it didn't matter.

My mum tracked down where the car was and told the dealer so he told the police and eventually the relatives and friends clubbed together to use a lawyer, find the will and get this bloke to butt out. I think he changed the locks as well.

It was the weirdest thing. I think it's all been sorted out now but you'd wonder how it could happen.

As for this case even if there is no will the siblings will have no claim. It goes to children first under intestacy rules.

They do not have precedence. Order is:

Spouse.
children.

it’s all here: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/who-can-inherit-if-there-is-no-will-the-rules-of-intestacy/

"normally" whoever is actually "next of kin" to the deceased is somewhat in pieces due to bereavement, so it's not unusual for slightly more distant people to take over a lot of the work - but always giving primary decision-making opportunities to the next-of-kin for as much as they feel up to doing.

The Next of Kin is the spouse if they are still married. If not married or divorced then the eldest child would be the next of kin. If no children then the parents, if still living. If parents deceased THEN the siblings.

In this case the adult children of the deceased relative need a lawyer and possibly an emergency court order to force the siblings to butt the hell out.

I can't get my head around how any funeral director would have taken instruction for the funeral from someone other than the next of kin in the circumstances as described. Very strange

Yes it's really odd isn't it. Same happened in the case I mentioned, and wasn't even a relative in that case.

In the OP's case the children should register their interest at the land registry to prevent any attempts at sale. They could also mention the issue to local estate agents so they don't take the house on.

They do not have precedence. Order is:

Spouse.
children

Yes - I said children first as I assumed there was no current spouse as the deceased was divorced.

The daughters may not be able to see a solicitor for several days. They shouldn't wait until then before trying to regain access to the house. It sounds like the siblings have had access to it for some time already and their plans for it and the contents may already be quite advanced.
The sooner the daughters can get in to house the better. Ideally in the next 24-48 hours. And before the siblings get wind of their intentions.

Children are next of kin