Who's in charge of arranging the funeral - siblings or adult children?

[RH13]

Earlier this year a relative died of a sudden and short illness at 56. He was divorced with two adult children with whom he had a normal loving parent-child relationship.

He had 4 siblings, and they decided from the outset and without any debate that they were to be in charge of all the funeral planning, undertakers, wake, obituary, etc.

His siblings would not let his children have any role in deciding the funeral service, music, readings, photos, logistics, etc.

They also arranged the funeral on the wedding anniversary of one of his children. I don't think this was deliberate but it goes to show how little consultation they gave the children.

They have also had his locks changed and said the children can't access his house without their permission. And they have informed his neighbours, who have new spare keys, not to let the children in if they ask. I don't know if it's relevant or not, but no will has been found.

Is it normal for siblings to take precedence over adult children in these matters? (If so, then I guess it's YABU for this). I am fortunate not to have had to deal with this yet so my knowledge is lacking here. Wouldn't the children be next of kin in his case?

Are the siblings all taking an equal part in this or is one of them taking the lead and the rest just going along with it or are not really involved? The dynamic there might be a clue as to what is behind this.

I'm not sure it's a given the neighbours know any backstory - they may just want to keep the hell out of it and siblings assume they are on board.

Also think it not a given that there is some deep dark secret.

The adult children should take steps to confirm the legal position of the house - but IME family members can get entitled/greedy or believe stuff they think should be true (often when it benefits them) or someone in their circle insists is the case which has no basic in law or even common decency.

The adult children may be trying to avoid a family fall out which is why they appears so passive which may be fueling sibling view they are in right but it does sound like they do need to do more and take legal advice.

I have a friend who after his elderly father died discovered an aspect to his 'private life' that was a total shock and very upsetting for him. Not just some old 'top shelf' type magazines at the back of a cupboard but something that completely shook the view of the man he knew and loved all his life.
I hope it isn't something like that but I think anyone who has to sort out the belongings and affairs of a person who has died would be wise to be prepared to come across things that might be surprising or even shocking to them.

It could be just as simple as 'Our Gary, God rest his soul, doesn't need that house any more, my daughter and her husband are desperate for a bigger place, his house would suit them down to the ground, I'm sure that's what he'd have wanted, his girls won't want to live in the house, they're down south with good jobs and husbands and they're in line to get their mum's house, so they don't really need the money anyway ...'

As many Mumsnet threads demonstrate daily, many ordinary people know nothing about the law.

It could be that simple but the fact they have changed the locks and told the neighbours not to let the daughters in suggests they know the daughters have a claim/right/standing/interest in this. I don't think simple ignorance of the law explains this extraordinary move.

It could be just as simple as 'Our Gary, God rest his soul, doesn't need that house any more, my daughter and her husband are desperate for a bigger place, his house would suit them down to the ground, I'm sure that's what he'd have wanted, his girls won't want to live in the house, they're down south with good jobs and husbands and they're in line to get their mum's house, so they don't really need the money anyway ...'

One of my Uncle tried that with a council property - cleared it without telling rest of family and moved his son wife and kid in obviously council tenancies don't work like that and as many in area were waiting lists for years so soon got reported. Still insisted they were right and everyone else was petty.

My DP are still finding out all the items that disappeared from my DGP house that were taken aboard by Uncle - he wasn't executor of the will was a pain about everything and they've no idea how he got access - suspect a neighbour with a key. My parent has avoided as don't want to fall out with brother though had no qualms about trying to get one thing I was left as Uncle was suddenly concerned (having read if in top condition would few hundred it's not in good nock) that I might not be looking after it properly.

if no will after probate estate will be divided amongst living children. siblings are way down the line

For them to change the locks - four adults all in agreement that this is for the best, well…. Unless they are all the devil incarnate, then there will be a reason

But it doesn't matter how well intentioned, if there is no will they had no right to do it. It doesn't matter even if there is a "back story" either. The house is not theirs! Legally it's probably no different to them changing the locks on a total strangers house and denying that stranger's family access.

So IF that was the case and he siblings knew about it and thought it would upset the daughters, why didn't they just quickly remove the evidence instead of behaving as they have?

It sounds as if this has been going on for weeks if not months.

Well then Garys niece and NIL can BUY the house off his child.

Knowing the law or not does not explain why people are greedy and have zero morals.

It would depend. If it was something easily identifiable as potentially distressing then yes, they could get rid of it quickly. But there might be something woven into many aspects of his life that would mean going through letters, diaries, personal belongings, financial records etc that would take a lot of time to remove every trace of. And maybe at the moment they don't really know what to do and changing the locks was the easiest thing to do while they work it out.
I appreciate that it sounds a bit far-fetched but it is possible. I've had personal experience of 'family secrets' which have emerged after a death. It's not just the stuff of TV soaps or Netflix family sagas.

there might be something woven into many aspects of his life that would mean going through letters, diaries, personal belongings, financial records etc that would take a lot of time to remove every trace of.

But again they have absolutely no right to do that. And yes I do think that scenario is totally far fetched. If a "secret" was such that it affected all areas of someone's life, I doubt it would be possible for it to remain a secret.

Tbh I think people are just making excuses for what is appalling behaviour. I truly doubt there is any altruism. "Think horses, not zebras".

Or, as I said, maybe one of the siblings believes that the small but now valuable stamp collection that Gary had as a kid is somewhere in the house and if they could find it, that would really help them out of a financial hole. They just haven't had a chance to look for it yet without arousing suspicion.

In case nobody has posted this yet, the CAB sets out clear guidance on this.

Who can inherit if there is no will – the rules of intestacy - Citizens Advice

But again they have absolutely no right to do that.
Of course they don't have a right to go through his house and remove anything. I'm not saying they have. I think changing the locks and telling the neighbours not to let the daughters in is such an extraordinary thing to do there must be something significant driving it. That might be greed, it might be altruism.
As for secrets being so 'big' they can't remain secret, that's nonsense. It would be wrong to speculate what it might be because this involves the OP's family and they are real people. But you only have to read or watch the news, or indeed MN, to know that people can keep 'big stuff' in their lives from their families, or parts of their family, for decades.

So greed then. They are stealing assets

Children are the next of kin. They need immediate legal advice.
Sounds like siblings intend to try to inherit.

@RH13 hope you have managed to help the siblings see sense and allowed the Children to access the home.

There is no legal basis in 'next of kin'. Inheritance is a separate issue.

@itsnotmeitsu
"There is no legal basis in 'next of kin'. Inheritance is a separate issue."
Theoretically, you are correct, and the deceased could have appointed someone to manage his estate that was someone other than his children (eg a sibling, or a close friend); or he could have appointed a solicitor.
In the absence of a will (and therefore no one appointed executor), then the inheritors in law (the children), would be expected to manage the estate, etc.
Note also that any LPA (Lasting Power of Attorney), ceases on death, which I mention as the deceased could have had an LPA, which was not any of his children.

I agree with others that if the deceased was intestate and divorced, his children inherit his estate. One or both of his daughters need to apply for probate/letters of administration - this enables someone to become an executor where there is no will naming them as such - https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/if-theres-not-a-will. They can do it through a solicitor or do it themselves. They might also consider writing to their uncles/aunts instructing them to hand over the keys to the property and not to remove anything from the property, pending probate. They should also say that anything which has been removed must be returned. They should do this sooner rather than later as it will be a headache to get a sibling removed as administrator if they apply.

Is there any update?