Who's in charge of arranging the funeral - siblings or adult children?

[RH13]

Earlier this year a relative died of a sudden and short illness at 56. He was divorced with two adult children with whom he had a normal loving parent-child relationship.

He had 4 siblings, and they decided from the outset and without any debate that they were to be in charge of all the funeral planning, undertakers, wake, obituary, etc.

His siblings would not let his children have any role in deciding the funeral service, music, readings, photos, logistics, etc.

They also arranged the funeral on the wedding anniversary of one of his children. I don't think this was deliberate but it goes to show how little consultation they gave the children.

They have also had his locks changed and said the children can't access his house without their permission. And they have informed his neighbours, who have new spare keys, not to let the children in if they ask. I don't know if it's relevant or not, but no will has been found.

Is it normal for siblings to take precedence over adult children in these matters? (If so, then I guess it's YABU for this). I am fortunate not to have had to deal with this yet so my knowledge is lacking here. Wouldn't the children be next of kin in his case?

I don't know why people keep talking about the funeral. First words of the OP are 'earlier this year'. Not 'earlier this week' or 'earlier this month', 'earlier this year'. The funeral has almost certainly already happened. Why the daughters allowed their aunts and uncles to take over arrangements is a mystery. Was it perhaps the case that their Dad lived near his siblings and they lived some distance away?

However, that has absolutely nothing to do with sorting out the deceased's estate. The adult daughters are due to inherit anything that's left after the mortgage and other debts are paid off.

Should be the children unless they can’t/don’t want to

It could be that the siblings think the girls didn't bother much with their dad when he was alive whilst they kept in regular contact. There might also be physical distance between them. Initially I assumed there was some sort of disagreement but sounds like his girls have gone along with things. Everyone's assuming the siblings are trying to steal however it could be more about maintaining some sort of control. They might have no intention of trying to rip anyone off, just don't want the daughter's who might not have had much to do with him, rummaging through his bits, so more about trying to protect their brothers dignity? Do the daughters even know his friends, his religious wishes, etc. Its not so unusual for children to have a civil but loose relationship with their dad if he separated from their mum when they were younger. Do the daughters object? If not, I'd keep my nose out. It's all in plane sight.

My mum and I arranged my uncles funeral and cleared his home. 2 of his daughters lived abroad, his son was estranged and his other daughter lived maybe 40 miles away with no money, car and mental ill health. We saw and cared for him in his home town. We did though liase with my cousins.

Children are next of kin and siblings acting illegally ,unless he had Instructed a solicitor otherwise. I would have serious doubts about any will the siblings have unless properly registered.

It is normal for funeral costs to come out of the estate. However, it’s usual for the person arranging the funeral to also be a beneficiary (spouse or adult children), so they are in effect deciding how much of their own inheritance to spend on the funeral. Was/is this to be a particularly lavish funeral, OP?

What are the logistics here, OP? Do the siblings live close and the daughters a long way away? That’s the only justification I can see for the siblings thinking that they are helping by taking over. That and the ages of the daughters - they are relatively young, and if you’ve never had to deal with a death/funeral, you don’t know what you don’t know. But that doesn’t make it right. What the siblings should have done is use their life experience to support the daughters in organising things, not take over from them - and DEFINITELY not bar them from the house.

Your cousins once removed need to get over there, show their aunts and uncles the information about intestacy, demand the keys from them (and immediately change the locks themselves) - and threaten them with a lawyer if they refuse to hand them over.

It may be, once inside, that they find paperwork which would point them to a solicitor. But the fact you say “no will has been found” implies that the siblings have had a good old look already. I wonder what else they have found?

I can't get my head around how any funeral director would have taken instruction for the funeral from someone other than the next of kin in the circumstances as described. Very strange.

Similarly, any solicitor taking instruction on the sale of the house would also quickly establish that the siblings have no legal standing to do so. And his daughters have been locked out of their father's house for months and not taken any steps to remedy this yet? Even stranger.

I have had to contact funeral directors twice recently, on each occasion the funeral director asked for next of kin details for the deceased.

The adult children should be applying for probate if there is no will.

This OP.
If you're saying that there was a divorce, was that acrimonious?
Did the family of the deceased view his kids as having taken the ex wife's side?

That could explain (I'm not saying justify) their rationale...

This!

This is not at all normal. Grown up kids need legal advice ASAP

Not normal at all . If I was one of the children I would have told them where to go in regards to the funeral and no flipping way they would have stopped me from entering my parent house . I would have called the police on them for trespassing!

Both my parents have died this year - adult children are next of kin.

I would be furious at any funeral director that went ahead with the funeral organised by siblings when there are adult children. I know ours checked carefully that my sister and I were next of kin, and as the eldest my name went first and correspondence came to me.

With regards to the will, again the adult children take precedence as next of kin. In the absence of the will, any assets will pass directly to them. The siblings would only inherit if specific bequests were left to them in a will!

I think they need to step up and take control, immediately! And consult a solicitor.

Maybe there is more to the story than you know op?

Also I expect things will have moved on if this was at the beginning of the year ie funeral been and gone and paid for. What is the position with the house now? Surely it hasn’t been locked up for months with the next of kin still denied access.

That is insane. Adult children and surviving partner if there is one should look after arrangements. Agree with pp, children should be getting legal advice. Sorry for your loss.

This is outrageous. How dare these people take over the funeral arrangements and lock the children out of their legal inheritance?

The adult children need legal advice ASAP and to demand the keys back from these awful people.

I doubt very much that the siblings could get letters of administration to administer the estate while children are alive, but maybe they could try.

Anyway, the children need to take control of the situation. Or at least they do if they want to ensure they are in control of the administering of the estate. Maybe they don't want to, or don't care.

The children I guess could refuse to administer the estate, in which case the siblings would then have the option of taking over.

The strange thing is the way they have changed over the locks and said the children can't enter the house without permission. That suggests some dishonorable intentions to me.

Anyway if the kids want what is due to them they need to step up.

Your mum's one of the siblings who did this, OP?

No, OP says the deceased and his siblings are her first cousins. Her mother and their mother were sisters. I assume her mum and the deceased's mum are no longer with us.

I’m surprised the funeral directors allowed this because it should be next of kin

Agree, the children now legally own the house and are responsible for funeral costs. They need to; apply for probate straight away, gain enter to the house either through the neighbours or breaking in, change the locks and put up a ring doorbell or CCTV for their protection.

They also need to formally write to the siblings explaining they are next of kin and do not give them permission to enter the house or use any of the estates funds.

It sounds like this has been going on for months. Why have the neighbours got spare keys to the house? Do the siblings live nearby? Are they relying on the neighbours to let people in eg tradesmen, house clearance or estate agents? Do the daughters know the neighbours?
The daughters need to gain entry even if it means breaking in and change the locks asap.

No, OP's mum was sister to his late wife, so it's the siblings of OP's mum's BIL.

The adult children are cousins of the OP

I think divorce/access is very different now, but it's likely women who are now in their 30s saw their dad on a Saturday and lived with their mum. As they hit their teens they saw less of him. He didn't 'do Xmas' etc and whilst no big fall out they weren't close. They moved away but visited mum at weekends etc....there's no judgment there, that's how things used to go. Even in families that don't divorce its common to generally only see dad when mum's arranged something. Daughter's tend not to socialise so much as adults with their dad. I did with mine because we had a shared hobby. My dad never visited my sister without mum but mum did. He did see me but only to do some DIY or on our way shooting etc. Didn't call in for a cuppa. Never visited my grown children alone. Things are changing

The siblings are well out of order. First thing I'd be doing is getting those locks changed again & installing a Ring doorbell if the siblings tried anything at the house I'd be phoning the police. They need to take control & stop letting their relatives take over.