Who's in charge of arranging the funeral - siblings or adult children?

[RH13]

Earlier this year a relative died of a sudden and short illness at 56. He was divorced with two adult children with whom he had a normal loving parent-child relationship.

He had 4 siblings, and they decided from the outset and without any debate that they were to be in charge of all the funeral planning, undertakers, wake, obituary, etc.

His siblings would not let his children have any role in deciding the funeral service, music, readings, photos, logistics, etc.

They also arranged the funeral on the wedding anniversary of one of his children. I don't think this was deliberate but it goes to show how little consultation they gave the children.

They have also had his locks changed and said the children can't access his house without their permission. And they have informed his neighbours, who have new spare keys, not to let the children in if they ask. I don't know if it's relevant or not, but no will has been found.

Is it normal for siblings to take precedence over adult children in these matters? (If so, then I guess it's YABU for this). I am fortunate not to have had to deal with this yet so my knowledge is lacking here. Wouldn't the children be next of kin in his case?

DC need to see a solicitor right away. Like tomorrow.

If the funeral hasn't happened I suggest they speak to the funeral director asap to make any changes or to stop the funeral. And to advise the FD that they are the next of kin. And that they are not to accept any payment that appears to have come from the deceased's bank account.

The changing of the locks to prevent the adult children shows they do jot have good intentions.

If I were one of the daughters I would be round asking for all copies of the keys immediately.

As well as contacting the funeral director and explaining who you were, take back control of any funeral and explain if they release the body to anyone else they will sue.

For the siblings to arrange the funeral they'd have had to have the death certificate, so I assume one of them is the Next of Kin.
But there's definitely something dodgy going on. I'm NoK and executor for a relative who had/ has closer relatives. I'm scrupulous about including them in everything and can't imagine any non sinister reason for denying them access to the house.

Despite not being blood related I arranged MILs funeral. I got a death certificate because I asked for one! DH was not capable for a while so I did everything and every official body dealt with me without question.

If siblings just said they were NOK...

Unfortunately the kids are letting themselves very walked all over. They need to stand up now. Go and change locks to the house and not let siblings in. Get lawyers ASAP before it's too late.

https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

The children need to take back possession of the house, even if that means breaking in. These siblings are a disgrace and the children could sue them if the funeral has already taken place.

Has the funeral actually taken place yet? Who is paying for it? Maybe the siblings will back off if they realise they might end up paying thousands.

It's not normal for siblings to take over from adult children but then it wouldn't be normal for adult children to go along with those decisions. The only time I could think this might happen is maybe if there's say a young but technically adult child whos too distraught/inexperienced to sort this alone, in which case an aunt/uncle might step up as a suppirt. Or possibly someone a long distance (abroad) away.
If the siblings have dominated, Id wonder if the children were mature enough to deal with this or perhaps were from a different (white UK) culture.

What?

If your mother is involved in this then you should take her key, if she has one, and give it to the children telling them to promptly change the locks. The only way this is legal is if there is a will, otherwise the siblings are financially responsible for the costs of anything they have arranged and they all liable for criminal charges for theft for anything removed from the house.

Anybody who is willing to pay the costs can organise a funeral.

They are not in a position to claim the costs back from any estate if there was a will as only the executor has the right to spend funds.

if there is no will uk law applies to the assets
first to a legal spouse
then children
Then parents
then siblings
The banks are unlikely to release funds from accounts if it is notified as a dispute over who had authority to enter into a contract on behalf of the dead persons estate.

So with no will the children get any money in the bank plus the house

The siblings get to pay for the services they contracted for.

'Next of kin' has no legal status in the UK so anybody can be nominated for that, including a friend or neighbour. The inheritance issue is separate from that. If no will is found then the children automatically inherit. The testate issue should be the focus here, rather than who arranges the funeral. This presumably means that until the existance or not of a will is established the siblings have absolutely no right to change the locks and keep children out. This creates a legal problem for the siblings, as they've done something they're not allowed to do. Whether the children are named as heirs, or their father died intestate, they inherit not just the property but everything in it. The siblings could be breaking the law by doing what they've done so far.

Surely they cannot arrange anything as they are not next of kin. His children need to be contacting the funeral home etc and say that the people organising it all are not next of kin. The siblings won’t have a death certificate though, will they?

For me the idea that the siblings are just trying to be helpful is blown away by the fact that they have changed the locks, not given the children copies of the new keys and even told the neighbours to deny them access. Why would they do that is they were just trying to be helpful.

Is it normal for siblings to take precedence over adult children in these matters?

Wow. It's nothing to do with the siblings! There's no will so his kids are next of kin. Why on earth aren't they challenging all of this?

Adult children

Get legal advice asap. I’m angry on the daughters’ behalf that the siblings have taken over under “help” guise.

My dad died at 50 but had been separated and divorced very recently and wife (step mum) got the house as she had children who were at school - no mortgage though.

When he died he was living in a shared house and I was always told he had nothing to his name so therefore no possessions etc. but if there was life insurance I’m guessing his ex wife got it.

I was upset when at 22 went to DM’s house when I heard about his death, stepmum and her new boyfriend were there and new boyfriend was really rude to me, saying basically he was a waste of space etc. he wasn’t he just had a drink problem. He’d bought the house, worked all his life, his wife didn’t work til much later and part time and he was a good father.

Then I had my half sister crying to me that our grandad (dad’s father) had got rid of grandma’s wedding and engagement rings after she’d died, this had been at least 10 years earlier).

A death certificate is a public document, and anyone can get a copy. And being the person arranging the funeral also permits you to register the death, you don't have to be the next of kin.

Surely his kids didn't just step back and accept that? They changed the locks, that's not done out of love or care. How 'early in the year' are we talking?

Waiting for legal advice means anything could be removed from the house. The children could break in, if the siblings dont hand over all keys immediately, then charge the siblings the cost of securing the house again - so new locks and making good after the break in.

I suspect the children are distressed about losing the father and dont wish to upset their aunts/uncles - but this really is disgusting behaviour by the siblings.

They have also had his locks changed and said the children can't access his house without their permission. And they have informed his neighbours, who have new spare keys, not to let the children in if they ask

And that is appalling. They need a lawyer, a locksmith and possibly the police.