To think most people do not 'obsess' over why a woman is childfree?

[Eastie77Returns]

I know several women in their late 30s/early 40s who do not have children. I know one is not childfree by choice (close friend) but have no idea about the others apart from two who have actively chosen to share that they have never wanted kids. I do not spend any time at all wondering why the others do not have children. I assume they don't want them or, as is sadly the case of my friend, are unable to but it isn't something I dwell on or speculate about.

I've read multiple columnists in newspapers and articles in magazines in which child free women declare that the public at large, and mothers in particular, are 'obsessesed' with women who do not have children and it's exhausting having to constantly explain why you do not have any etc. They are fed up with the general assumption that they are selfish, career-mad, horrible child haters and this sentiment mostly comes from women who have kids. I have DC as do most of my friends. In my 10 years as a parent I have never had a conversation with any of them about 'selfish' childless women. Most of us completely understand why someone would prefer not to have kids!

I might be alone in thinking this but I honestly don't think most people really care about a woman's childbearing status. Obviously there are many ridiculous individuals who think it's ok to question a woman's choice and trott out BS like "you've never known true love/what tiredness really is until...." but I honestly think they are in the minority and the majority of mothers do not really care. Or am I being naive? My friends who are childfree by choice tell me they have occasionally been asked if they have kids but with rare exceptions have not been asked why not or any other follow up questions.

As a woman who does not have any children, I would say that yes, people regularly comment on it and ask me about it. It happens all the time, in work situations, social situations, you'd be surprised how quickly it comes up when meeting someone new. Just like the author of the article you read, I also find it mentally exhausting having to explain that to others. I find it rude and intrusive.

In all fairness, even when you have kids people seem to think it’s an appropriate work conversation or conversation when meeting someone for the first time. How many I have, how old they are, what’s their sex, what are they studying, how do I manage to work and have kids and so on.

And for me you can see the flicker of judgment when they realise my eldest (now an adult) must have been born when I was in my teens and confusion that I still hold a very senior position. Despite being a very young mum.

Which is nothing compared to the fact that I am also a single parent. Yes I get asked ‘what does their dad do?’. It makes them uncomfortable when I say ‘I don’t. He lives off grid and we haven’t seen him for years‘. What their Dad does is irrelevant wether I am with him or not.

I think some people just think it’s ok to be intrusive about women’s lives.

Child free…not one person cares!

In my OP I clearly stated that what I disagree with is the articles and blogs I've read by child-free women who suggest that a) most women with children are obsessed with child-free women and think they are all cold, selfish individiuals. b) society in general is fixated with CF women.

I'm aware that some people make stupid, insensitive and intrusive comments. And as I said, I suppose many people might idily wonder why a 40+ year old woman doesn't have children. I don't think that means the UK population at large is sitting around thinking about the subject. I don't think most (sane) women care about other women's reproductive decisions.

I've been on the receiving end of countless racist, demeaning comments. If I extropolated the views of the people who made those comments and made the blanket statement "all white people in the UK are obsessed with race" what would you think?

I agree that not having children is becoming commonplace and increasingly seen as sensible choice rather than something revolutionary (in the UK anyway). But as I metnioned upthread cultural norms play a big part in this and some women will face huge pressure if they choose not to.

The only thing I would say to those childfree by choice anonymously is that there are repercussions later - I work with the elderly and most of our loneliest people, those with social services intervention are childless (no idea if by choice) just anecdotal but I have done this job for 14 years, it's a definite pattern

So we should have children we don't want on the off chance it'll stop us feeling lonely later on? What an excellent suggestion.

I think being motivated to have children by the fear of not having anyone to look after you when you are old is probably a good way of ensuring you have a pretty lonely old age.

I’m not sure I’ve read an article from a journalist suggesting that all women are obsessed with childfree women.

I’ve read ones which suggest that lots of women ask intrusive questions or raise counterarguments (as has happened on this very thread), but never one which suggests that childfree women are the subject of an obsession per se.

I did a quick google and the only article I could find using that precise language was written by a mum asking why she was obsessed with childfree women.

The others were challenging views at a societal level about CF women - that we’re career obsessed, selfish, don’t know our own minds etc. Those attitudes exist - don’t get me started on the time I had to argue with several posters on here who kept insisting I was rich because I have no kids. There was a thread just last week where a mum was envious of CF women because they have multiple holidays a year and great careers, as if we’re a monolith.

Point being, I dunno, I just find this entire thread really goady. There have been a fair number of attempts to get at the CF since our board was established and I feel like this is just another of those.

I think this is one of those situations where you can't know about others experiences if you haven't experienced it yourself. I.e. If you aren’t childfree yourself how would you know that other people aren’t questioning those that are?

In my OP I clearly stated that what I disagree with is the articles and blogs I've read by child-free women who suggest that a) most women with children are obsessed with child-free women and think they are all cold, selfish individiuals. b) society in general is fixated with CF women

Some people do think that as you conceded. I think blogs and articles making reference to that fact are allowed. Genuinely not sure why it irritates you so much.

I've been on the receiving end of countless racist, demeaning comments. If I extropolated the views of the people who made those comments and made the blanket statement "all white people in the UK are obsessed with race" what would you think?

It’s never good to make generalisations but racism does exist so I wouldn’t think you were making it up if that’s what you’re asking. It’s making reference to a problem that does exist (although some would like to think it doesn’t)

Funny thing is they have no interest in finding out the man’s reproductive status. I yet have to hear a male or male celebrity being asked when is he planning to have children, yet it’s done to women in a regular basis. Sexism is alive n kicking.

It's none of anyone's business but I think that absolutely other people take an extensive interest in why a woman doesn't have kids. Having kids seems to be the norm (especially for women) and not having them seems a noteworthy departure from that norm and people wonder what's wrong with them if not judge them outrightly. The (tabloid) media seems to love discussing whether a woman has kids or not and when even more than their love life.

I had kids late and before that every tom, dick and harry thought it was their right to ask me what's wrong and to advise me to have them before it's too late.

I'm 47, no kids and have never really had people asking why. Clearly they wouldn't now, as I'm quite obviously too old, but I don't remember it in my thirties either. I am not married though and have had 4 different relationships since I turned 30, which might play a part in that. I can imagine that if you're very settled then people would be more likely to ask.
I have many friends with kids, and quite a few with none. It's not really been a major topic of conversation with either set, nor have I had some of the terrible comments from acquaintances / colleagues / randoms that other posters have experienced. I have a famously forbidding RBF though so perhaps they don't dare.....

I am not married though and have had 4 different relationships since I turned 30, which might play a part in that. I can imagine that if you're very settled then people would be more likely to ask.

This is a good point. If you get married in your early thirties and then follow it up with a move to a four-bed house, the questions certainly come!

Indeed!
We married in 20s, then moved to 3 bed🙈

"So why are you even married if you don't want kids? Stopped from the few people after I started asking why they are not married if they want/have kids😂

@Eastie77Returns you say you acknowledge it happens but perhaps not as often as was suggested. You’re not in that target demographic so why don’t you listen to the people who are? I am not. However, it’s similar to when non disabled people go to great lengths to say there are plenty of disabled parking spaces even though, sometimes there aren’t enough. I say there are often not enough and I would know because I look every single time.

Several child free women on this thread mention they are rarely asked or have never been asked why they do not have children.
I also know other child free women have to put up with intrusive, judgemental behaviour.

Is it possible to accept that all not all child free women go through the exact same experience? That was the point I was making in my OP about the articles I’ve read (which then got drowned out by people claiming I’m invalidating the lived experience of some women)

If someone has endured a negative experience it doesn’t ‘invalidate’ them if someone else in their exact position hasn’t had the same experience.

Re the parking space analogy: it’s a quantifiable fact there is insufficient provision for disabled drivers which I think is different from a subjective opinion.

The only thing I would say to those childfree by choice anonymously is that there are repercussions later

Every decision has potential repercussions, though!

"So why are you even married if you don't want kids?

Gah! Yes I have heard this one, too!

Let's face it, for how much CF people believe they are judged, there are a awful lot of nasty nitpicking posts from them online about children and parents. They've popularised terms such as fuck trophy and crotch dropping to describe children (which pick me cool mums sometimes use about their own kids 🙄).

So if the CF are correct about their lifestyle being judged, it's at least a two way street.

@LuvSmallDogs please provide evidence of any CF women on MN using those terms. Yet we still get judged, right on this board, so no I would not say it's a two way street on here.

In my experience parents are much nastier about other parents and other people’s children than childfree women are.

I don't think most people really care - I think it is careless used as a conversation started/filler/small talk.

Women with kids get impertinent questions often loaded with judgement - often arounds working/pt/SAHM and increasingly age gaps and number had. I once had a question from potential house buyer - did I mean to have as many kids as we had - I made it politely clear it was very rude question.

I do think perhaps people speaking out about it might make some people think twice but I'm not convinced it will.

MIL was often upset as she got comments about DH being an only - horrific early labour and pnd - was frequently told she change her mind or that DH would be damaged - yet she had to be taken aside and told to stop as she will persist in asking questions and giving unwanted advice to family members with known fertility issues.

You’d be surprised just how much some people seem to care. Have a look on some of the threads on the Childfree Mumsnetters board, and you might get a clearer idea.

@JudgeAnderson I missed the bit in my post where I specified I was talking about CFers on MN, could you point it out to me please?