To think most people do not 'obsess' over why a woman is childfree?

[Eastie77Returns]

I know several women in their late 30s/early 40s who do not have children. I know one is not childfree by choice (close friend) but have no idea about the others apart from two who have actively chosen to share that they have never wanted kids. I do not spend any time at all wondering why the others do not have children. I assume they don't want them or, as is sadly the case of my friend, are unable to but it isn't something I dwell on or speculate about.

I've read multiple columnists in newspapers and articles in magazines in which child free women declare that the public at large, and mothers in particular, are 'obsessesed' with women who do not have children and it's exhausting having to constantly explain why you do not have any etc. They are fed up with the general assumption that they are selfish, career-mad, horrible child haters and this sentiment mostly comes from women who have kids. I have DC as do most of my friends. In my 10 years as a parent I have never had a conversation with any of them about 'selfish' childless women. Most of us completely understand why someone would prefer not to have kids!

I might be alone in thinking this but I honestly don't think most people really care about a woman's childbearing status. Obviously there are many ridiculous individuals who think it's ok to question a woman's choice and trott out BS like "you've never known true love/what tiredness really is until...." but I honestly think they are in the minority and the majority of mothers do not really care. Or am I being naive? My friends who are childfree by choice tell me they have occasionally been asked if they have kids but with rare exceptions have not been asked why not or any other follow up questions.

They don't obsess.

But when I'm with family they do tend to bring up those without kids with a tone of feeling sorry for them/looking down on them.

You’d be surprised! and if it’s not you in this category then you OBVIOUSLY aren‘t facing the endless questioning so YABVU - I just tell them about all my dead babies if they won’t shut up. Older generations are the worst I find but not exclusively. It’s the damn assumption.

I've had plenty of dumbfucks trot out pity and amazement that I don't have children. It only stopped when I was obviously past childbearing age - I was still getting "it's not too late!" bullshit in my late 40s.

Well, I don't know if I'd say obsess, but I do find it a curiosity, in that wanting children for me personally was a biological urge I'd felt since I was a child, and not a rational choice in anyway at all. I often wonder would choose to have children otherwise, it doesn't make much sense rationally. Women who are childfree by choice therefore either (lucky?) that they don't have that biological instinct or aren't being honest, and both of those options I find worthy of me (privately) pondering about. Also I bet many others like me have known women who are very vocally anti children who later have children and reinvent themselves as mother earth, and those type of people probably make it hard for those who are authentically childfree by choice to be believed. I would never question someone's choices in person, but yes, I do wonder.

Women who are childfree by choice therefore either (lucky?) that they don't have that biological instinct or aren't being honest, and both of those options I find worthy of me (privately) pondering about.

Why would we lie about it, when all society is loaded with the "you should have children" message? Or perhaps not everyone feels this urge with any strength, or just goes along with it? I certainly never felt the slightest urge to reproduce.

I got, as a free gift along with the pity and condescension, "you could always adopt" when I was in my early fifties, chronically ill and broke!

I personally don't obsess about it, because whether they never wanted them or couldn't have them is none of my business. However, a lot of other people are nosy and don't see it as a personal question so I can believe that they do get asked. We struggled with infertility and I do remember being asked if I wanted kids (often with a reminder not to leave it too late!) by people who had no idea about what we were going through. I think most people are just trying to make conversation but I also think some get defensive if someone says no I don't want them as if the questioner is being judged for having them.

A pp’s comment about builders has reminded me of when I was renovating my home and the architect kept talking about ‘space for the kids to chill out’ and ‘imagine the kids doing their homework here while you’re doing…’ etc. This was despite me having told him in our very first meeting about my needs and wants for a home, which very clearly did not encompass space for kids. When reminded of that he breezily brushed me aside with a hand wave and “oh you’re young, it’ll happen yet”. It was only when I threatened to sack him that he took me seriously.

I didn't have kids by choice until I was almost 40. I was in a position to do so for years but I didn't want children at that point. Nobody else cared. Barely anyone asked me about it. If they did, they didn't challenge me. It Wasn't A Big Deal. However, I recognise that living in a big city probably helped with that.

But the birth rate in the UK is currently hovering around 1.5 children per woman (down from 1.9 in 2010) and getting lower. The population replacement rate needs to be 2.1. We're obviously well below that now. We're on the same trajectory as the rest of Europe where the birth rate is around 1.3 in a lot of European countries. In East Asia the downward trajectory is even more marked - the South Korean birth rate is 0.8 children per woman.

My point is that the percentage of people who are choosing a childfree life is growing rapidly. From an environmental perspective that's great! It also means that this choice is becoming increasingly normalised. There's an explosion of articles about being childfree because so many more women are opting for this lifestyle. Very soon it will stop being a radical decision (it already has, I think, although a lot of people have yet to realise it) and people who write about this topic will need to find something else to write about.

It’s nothing to do with “very special specialness” as you so nastily put it. It’s to do with the fact that childfree women often have to insist again and again and a-fucking-gain that we are quite happy and fulfilled, thanks, usually in the face of someone’s insistence that we don’t know what love is/have shallow empty lives/haven’t grown up/will change our minds.

And when that message finally gets through we’re accused of insisting we’re special. Yeah, fuck off with that.

NOPE! Nor do I wonder or obsess over why someone only has one kid, or if they’re twins were naturally conceived.

because I do know that there are reasons but they ain’t my business, and if I know someone we’ll enough for them to share details then they probably will eventually

Predictably this has become a thread dominated by child-free women telling the rest of us that we actually ARE obsessed with them and their very special specialness.

It’s become a thread dominated by child free women explaining that, yes, they are sometimes looked down on and are not unhinged just because they don’t have kids.

I’ve stated several times that I’m fully aware that child free women have to deal with intrusive questions, crappy comments, suspicion etc and it is 100% a big deal.

So why did you start a thread with an OP implying otherwise.

I was child free not by choice but by infertility until I was 39. From about age 28 onwards I had to deal with people’s nosy enquiries or unsolicited opinions and advice about how I wasn’t getting any younger and that how children would ‘complete me’. I was quietly suffering from multiple pregnancy losses, infertility and Ivf.

So big whoop the article annoyed you, because for me when I read them and think yippee! Hopefully classless people will think before they open their traps when speaking to childfree women.

I've always been questioned why I don't have children. Very recently a child free friend asked me why I didn't have any, but I think that was more for her to tell me that she never had any due to fertility issues. It made me realise that I never ask my childfree friends why they don't have children. (Nor my parent friends if they're having more etc)
But I've been questioned to the point of intrusiveness like "have you even tried?!" - which to me felt like they were asking if I ever even have sex with my husband!
I think what baffles my friends & family is that I'm very good with children. A photo of me and my infant niece was posted on a family chat and my MIL commented I was a natural.
I have multiple reasons for why I don't want children- some are deeply personal (but not fertility issues), and I don't see why I need to share this.
I've now learned to tailor my response to the type of person asking, to minimise the questions, but it took me a long time to learn this skill!

It’s none of my business why some doesn’t have kids. I’m actually careful to not ask if people have kids because I know it’s intrusive. I have a big family and get intrusive questions and comments that are out of order.

@LindorDoubleChoc How unpleasant. This is a thread about childfree women and you're taking exception that they actually contribute?

I would never ask someone I’ve just met if they have children let alone why not, I just can’t imagine asking anyone such intrusive and potentially sensitive questions. I wouldn’t even ask someone what they do for a living unless they were bringing it into the conversation.

I don’t think any of these things are the most interesting aspects of a person and there are better things to talk about.

I adore my children and they are the centre of my life but I don’t expect anyone else to want to hear about them!

Things I don't ask
Do you have children? Why not?
Do you have a husband or partner? Why not?
Do you have a job? Why not?
If they do, they will come up in the convo anyway.
I stick to the weather or my old standby " Have you come far?" 🙂 Dull but offends no one.

I think people are naturally intrigued by those who have made different choices to them and perhaps slightly jealous of their lifestyle. I also think journalists have to fill column inches and the fact we are even discussing it means they have hit upon a topic that people find interesting/ are nosy about!

Do I care why? No. Do I feel sympathy for those who want children and can't? Of course. Is any of it my business? No!

The only thing I would say to those childfree by choice anonymously is that there are repercussions later - I work with the elderly and most of our loneliest people, those with social services intervention are childless (no idea if by choice) just anecdotal but I have done this job for 14 years, it's a definite pattern.

The only thing I would say to those childfree by choice anonymously is that there are repercussions later - I work with the elderly and most of our loneliest people, those with social services intervention are childless (no idea if by choice) just anecdotal but I have done this job for 14 years, it's a definite pattern.

I'm a nurse and in my experience it is the opposite. Those with children feel lonelier because they have children who don't visit enough. The people without children tend to be better prepared for old age.

The only thing I would say to those childfree by choice anonymously is that there are repercussions later - I work with the elderly and most of our loneliest people, those with social services intervention are childless (no idea if by choice) just anecdotal but I have done this job for 14 years, it's a definite pattern.

Even if this is the case (and I'd imagine it's far more lonely and painful knowing you have children who are not bothering with you or are living far away), the very elderly life stage is short and hardly the best part of your life so I'd argue that it's not worth sacrificing decades of your more youthful years doing something huge that you really don't want to do, just in case it makes the final few least enjoyable years a bit easier. Which it may or may not do anyway.

I work with elderly people as well and lots of it involves comforting people whose children don't visit, haven't visited for ages or won't visit which is so upsetting for the people I work with. It's something I see personally as well eg I have two aunts at opposite ends of children - one childfree and one with A LOT of children and it was the one who was childfree who had many visitors in her final days at home while the aunt with lots of children was alone. This is true of other relatives, relatives of my husband and my sister in laws family. There are also many campaigns about lonely older people and older people reaching out to their communities, they can't all be childless or childfree.

Your second paragraph says you don’t care, none of your business, and in your very next breath you’re coming out with one of our childfree bingo squares - “won’t you be lonely when you’re old”. Plenty of people with children are lonely in old age too - those with children living in different countries who simply don’t give a shit about them. Having kids is no guarantee you would be lonely in old age, and not having them doesn’t mean you won’t still have people who care about you, especially if you invest in friendships.

I would have thought having kids when you don’t really want them wouldn’t increase your chances of being not being alone when you die.

Being a parent isn’t easy. Even when you really want to be one. I love being a parent. But it’s still hard. Doing something hard when you didn’t really want to do it in the first place is soul destroying and the kids, usually, pick up on it. Creating a poor relationship between the kids and the parents.

Having kids doesn’t ensure you aren’t alone in old age even when the relationships are good. It doesn’t ensure you aren’t alone when you die. Almost 2 years ago, I spoke to my mum on the phone at half 10. She didn’t feel so well and was going to the doctors to have her inhalers reviewed. She got off the phone to me and went for shower. She never made it into the shower. She collapsed and died. Dad was downstairs. She tried to make it out of the bathroom onto the landing. But she was alone and scared. She was only in her 60s and had 2 kids that adored her, 5 grandkids who thought she was amazing. And she died alone. I will never forgive myself. Neither will dad.

My Dad is amazing and we are close. But me and my brother work. As do our partners. Our kids are all in school or at uni. We see him as much as we can, but he has had to build a life with friends and socialise. We can’t physically be there all the time. Again, lots of family. But he had to make a life of his own without mum and independent of us.