To think a house guest shouldn’t be parenting your kids?

[evuscha]

We had my DH’s friend staying with us for a few days, she’s single and childless in her early 50’s though claims that she knows everything about kids because she was a nanny when she was young. The whole time she wouldn’t get off my 4yo DD’s case, constantly reprimanding her for every little thing, saying things like “don’t you ever do that again” then saying it to my DH as a funny story later became of “how terrified” my DD looked at her….constantly throwing little digs like “oh you don’t give her time outs” or “oh she gets to pick which songs you listen to in a car?” (we take turns btw sometimes our music sometimes kids songs, apparently that’s appalling 😀) I’m expecting #2 soon so more digs like “oh I thought that was planned/wanted” whenever I said it will probably be tough or something along those lines.

I did speak up and stood up for my DD but none of my comments helped and I feel like it’s DH’s job to put HIS friend in her place? I would certainly be having stern words if my family/friends did that. I also have friends whose kids in my opinion get away with more than my DD but I would never dream of bossing their kids around (beyond the basic keeping everyone safe) in front of them? AIBU?

Yes I think that’s my main strategy going forward. I’m not going to make it a huge drama now, but next time she asks to stay (happens about once a year when she passes through our area) I will tell her it doesn’t work for us and I will tell her why.

I agree with those fully, obviously if we stay at someone’s house we follow their rules! We stayed at her place last year and I was fine with her telling DD to be quiet/not to run etc because that was her place. She also wasn’t quite as extreme about it back then as she was this time - she really ramped the whole “I’m so annoyed by the very existence of kids” vibe.

Yes, I think that’s what it is. My DH apologized and said he would do better next time but he still didn’t see anything problematic or took anything she said as digs. Whereas for me they were pretty obvious.
Thank you for your wishes 💐

I'd be pulling her up on it and telling her to stop telling DD off and talking to her that way. I had to do the same with DM as she was just taking out her own grumpiness/tiredness on DD2 and telling her off for nothing. DM hated it and denied it all but did actually take the comments on board. I'm not someone who minds others telling DDs off but it has to be reasonable. You should have your daughter's back on this and DH should have your back also.

Bottom line is I don’t think she likes kids so every little thing irritated her
Or you tolerate some behaviours from your child because they are yours and feel differently if it were someone else kids or you have different views.

I was on the train yesterday and the kid in front, about 5 years old kept singing the start of a tune over and over and over for the entire journey. I felt I was going mad with the tune now set in my head.

Mum was sitting there, not interacting with the child and seemed totally oblivious to it. Probably immune to it herself. I wanted to shout to the kid to shut up! I never would but was amazed mum didn't consider for a second that this might be very disturbing for others. In the end, I got up and went to another compartment. I had to stand but this was better than ensuring the non stop tune.

If she'd been someone I knew, I'd definitely have said something to the child. It might have offended mum though.

Same. And anyone gleefully telling my dh that she’d terrified my child with a telling off would not be welcome in my house again.

Yes, also my point exactly! When in her house, we follow her rules. When in a public place (cinema, restaurant…) we obviously make sure noone else is disturbed by DD. Well we actually take turns with music in the car - sometimes DD picks, sometimes it’s grownup music, on this occasion it was hers on the way there and ours on the way back. So it’s not like it’s always DD’s way. (of course DH brushed it off in a jokey “yeah sometimes she lets us pick music hahaha” way which annoyed me even more, like why would you side with your friend on the “your child is a brat” topic when it’s not even true!)

But absolutely what annoyed me the most was that all this happened in our home, where we were very accommodating to her, took her to her preferred restaurant (not a kid friendly one but DD was fine), her preferred beach (big waves bad beach access again wouldn’t be our choice but DD was fine) and yet there was a complaint after complaint and demands after demands (such as the music choice). I have never come across anyone like that. And she really ramped up the whole “I am really annoyed by kids” attitude since last time we saw her (one other comment that really got me was “she sucks the energy out of me” said to us about DD) so why did she decide to stay with us I do not understand!!

Trying to put the whole thing behind me but the more I think about it the more annoyed I am. Also with myself for not speaking up more.

How awful she refused to hold the sticky hand of a young child.... she can wash her bloody hands afterwards.

If a child wanted to hold my hand I'd see it as a trust thing.

She sounds bloody awful.

We never did time out or naughty steps. My eldest would give himself time out if overwhelmed, but this was a way of digesting a situation, not an imposed punishment. My approach to social infractions was to insisted on taking ownership of actions and offering a genuine apology. And I have always treated them as thinking, feeling little people who have preferences for things like music, should feel free to articulate these preferences and have them acted upon. So, like you, we took turns in choosing songs.

All in all, I think there are good reasons that her nannying career didn’t last.

@evevuscha the radio thing makes me laugh because honestly I think driver picks cause they can't wear earphones/headphones or watch a tablet or whatever.
But past that on a random short journey we just pick between us because as far as I'm concerned my children are small people who lack the capacity to make some judgements.

Whether they need to take a medicine? My choice.
How much of their dinner they opt to eat? Their choice.

Therefore I treat them like I would anybody else who is in my car - ask if they have a preference, find a mutually appreciated band if possible and alternative mine with theirs if not.

Try not to dwell on the "what ifs" of what you'd do differently - with it being DH's friend I'd have expected him to step up first as well, and you know your stance now and won't be accepting that again.

I think this is horrible!

Forget all the stuff about parenting styles etc., what about this person (because even though she's a child, she is actually a person) who is being relentlessly picked up on, chastised, criticised, put in the spotlight and talked down to? What about her feelings and self esteem?

Pulling a child up on poor behaviour is one thing, but just because someone's a child doesn't mean it's ok to ceaselessly pick on every single thing they do and find fault with it. It wouldn't be acceptable to do it to another adult, even if they were annoying us, so why is it this big debate about whether it's ok to do it to a child? It's simply not.

one other comment that really got me was “she sucks the energy out of me"

Omg if someone said this about my dd to my actual face I'd be blown away. The audacity. It's not like she had to babysit her...! Genuinely I can't believe anyone could think that's an acceptable thing to say to a parent. Fair enough to think it or say it in confidence to a third party. But to you? Mind boggles

I’ve never had a guest try to parent my kids and never have I disciplined a friend’s kids beyond reminding all the kids (mine included) to share nicely or redirecting a game if there is an issue. Very gentle stuff.

I was a teacher for 10 years, it doesn’t mean I have any right to discipline other people’s children. She is being wildly inappropriate.

Id take her aside and say something like “I’m sure you mean to be helpful, but you are not to tell DD off. Please stop.”

I hate being super direct, but I have a feeling that if she had ANY likelihood of getting social clues or subtle hints she would never have behaved this way to begin with.

And if she is gone make a promise to yourself never to have her back.
If she asks tell her straight that her interactions with your daughter were problematic so it won’t be possible for her to stay again.

I think overall she was disrespectful of the fact that she was a guest in someone else's home. When you went to her home, you tried to learn her rules and get your child to follow them. This is normal guest behavior. But when she came to your home, she didn't do the same. And your dh let her get away with it, perhaps because it's usually women who get criticized for how they raise their kids, so he didn't see it as a dig on him that she was making snarky remarks about how you parent your kids. He understood implicitly that it was a dig on you, not on him, and why would that bother him?

I think it's pretty normal for mums of young kids to feel uncertain about their parenting and hence to be very open to changing their approach, if other adults signal they are parenting their children incorrectly. But just because another adult criticizes your parenting doesn't mean they are correct. Adults can be just as selfish as kids. I think the key here is that you were in your own home. I think another adult parenting my child in my home crosses the line, because it's disrespectful to my authority over my child and over my home. If you dislike my child's behavior, you can either ask me quietly to do something about it because of a specific problem it causes you, or you can stew silently and never invite yourself back to my house again. Going over my head with my kid as if you are the boss of me AND my kid, is not ok.

The idea that children should experience being disciplined by other adults, I think that is outdated advice. Kids get disciplined by teachers, coaches etc. That is plenty of "non-parent" discipline. Communicating to your child that they have to obey any miniscule request from any adult just because they are an adult, is a recipe for porous boundaries. I think it's reasonable to say that adults can make general communications and decisions in emergency. Any adult can stop a child running into traffic. Any adult is allowed to intervene, no questions asked, if the child is putting someone in danger, e.g. running at an elderly person who is in danger of falling, or a child trying to push a stroller (with baby inside) down the stairs. But outside of that, no.

She does sound a bit OTT. She shouldn’t have been telling your DD off but if she was hit/kicked or your DD said a rude word to her then yes she should’ve said something back to your DD (not as rude but “oww that hurt, you should not kick people” etc but backed up by your or your DH.

However, I occasionally see/look after DNephew who’s 5 with his parents etc and sometimes he can be a nightmare (mum is a gentle parent). He was kicking and hitting me hard repeatedly one day and I had to say “don’t do that again, that hurt me” in a firm and slightly raised voice because it was me being hit and kicked. Yes his parents said it too but I’m the one who was kicked at the time. If he’s really rude like he was once, really rude kept on saying nasty comments and knew what he’d said, then DB took him straight upstairs to think about it after I’d said I wasn’t happy with his behaviour (both to him and DB). Generally if it’s the odd rude/cheeky comment or even physical I just ignore now and he’s growing up and maturing more now so is learning to take other people’s feelings into consideration more.

“she sucks the energy out of me"

who the AF does she think she is? “I’ll stay at your house FOR FREE, FOR A HOLIDAY but the price of having to put up with your kid is too much for me… “

Like FTFO woman. She would never EVER cross my threshold again.

this however is your perma-get out @evuscha

“no, painful guest, it won’t suit us at all, and after your comments last time about our DD and how she sucked the energy out of you, your freeloader holiday plans won’t suit us ever. I’d suggest bnbs nearby, but frankly I don’t want to inflict you on our child again.”

I do teach DD that no means no and if someone doesn’t want to hold hands/hugs/kiss etc we respect that, so all good in principle but just another example of that “oh I’m so annoyed by you” attitude which was just sad. Another example - DD sang a song which she learned and then asked her “did you like my song?” and she went “oh I wasn’t listening to you”. Just say yes ffs, is it that hard? Like every opportunity to “put DD in her place” had to be taken.

Oh yeah, I have learned my lesson, even more that she left on Sunday morning and it’s Monday and I’m still annoyed by the whole thing. She will no doubt ask to stay again but probably not til next year, so I really hope to remember this feeling. But no way it would go well with her here when we have 2 kids!
(actually she used to live nearby when DD was a baby and we spent time with her with no issues - but DD was an extremely happy baby, god forbid she would do normal baby things like cry!)

I agree with you, if she was rude, doing something to her, or doing something dangerous, absolutely correct her. Also if you’re in charge of your nephew, then you’re in charge! But it was none of that, the comments were in our presence, constant, passive aggressive, for every little thing.

I think I the real world you would have to stand up to her, though it would be difficult you can't have her talking to your daughter like that as its your house your rules.

Yes that is my view as well, and probably why I’m still dwelling on it and annoyed by it. Because essentially I showed DD it’s fine to let people pick on her. In fact I would rather teach her that she should also be standing up for those being picked on!

I agree despite them being little they’re still people who have preferences, can get tired, sad, disappointed, and their brain is actually still learning. Meanwhile there is an adult who is rude, says any insult that comes to her mind, expects others to pander to her - but she thinks a 4yo should be 100% obedient, quiet, cheerful but not too cheerful of course.

I always find, on any thread, the first few posters all disagree with the OP, no matter how glaringly obvious it is that the OP is not unreasonable. Then there's a bit of a pile on and then the more balanced, sensible people come along. EVERY SINGLE THREAD!

Other people might tell off your kids from time to time, but you need to be right in there when it happens so you can defend your child if they’re doing it in a way that hurts them or makes them feel scared.

I remember a complete stranger telling my 2 year old old off (in a very sharp way) for taking her child’s toy, WHILE I was busy talking to him about it. I just snapped, “I’m dealing with it!” and calmly carried on with my way of doing things. I’d do that with your guest. Just tell her her got it under control and carry on. Just completely ignore her if she carries on. She sounds like an awful person with her snarky comments. I’m pretty shy to stand up to friends usually, but after even a few hours with the woman you’re describing I’d be fed up and drawing some very strong boundaries.