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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Mother of Star Hobson does not deserve sympathy

312 replies

pumpkinspice87 · 13/08/2023 07:14

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12385875/amp/Family-murdered-Star-Hobson-looking-forward-welcoming-home-mother-allowed-toddler-die-hands-girlfriend-say-victim-tragedy.html

Am I being unreasonable to be absolutely sickened by this article? I get that this man is traumatised by what happened to his family, but how could anyone be so blinded as to see Star's mother as some sort of innocent victim? She was a cruel and neglectful mother who was too infatuated with her new partner to protect her baby daughter. Yes, I know she has a low IQ and learning difficulties. However, to use this as a constant excuse is an absolute insult to the many, many people in this country with learning difficulties (many of whom are parents) who would never, ever think it is acceptable to stand by and watch whilst their child is horrifically abused.

EXCL: Family of tragic Star Hobson will welcome home jailed mother

EXCLUSIVE: The distraught family of tragic 16-month-old Star Hobson say they are ready to welcome her mother back home - three years after her brutal girlfriend killed the toddler.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12385875/amp/Family-murdered-Star-Hobson-looking-forward-welcoming-home-mother-allowed-toddler-die-hands-girlfriend-say-victim-tragedy.html

OP posts:
Cas112 · 13/08/2023 19:09

@TheWayoftheLeaf @Summerwashout watch the Emma kenny episode about the case on YouTube, a lot of insight there, quite graphic and will explain alot about the real

Cas112 · 13/08/2023 19:09

Cas112 · 13/08/2023 19:09

@TheWayoftheLeaf @Summerwashout watch the Emma kenny episode about the case on YouTube, a lot of insight there, quite graphic and will explain alot about the real

Relationship between the perpetrators

faithloveandpixiedust · 13/08/2023 19:10

Cas112 · 13/08/2023 17:01

It was her own mother who held her daughters head under the water in a bath as punishment for crying.. that thing doesn't get any sympathy from me.

There was actual video evidence of that being discussed/argued between the two about that happening. They should both rot

How can anyone give the OP a hard time for being angry when you read something like that? Words can not do justice to how horrific that is.

HmmOk · 13/08/2023 19:44

Did Frankie hurt Star before she was in the relationship with the murderer?

I know posters have said she did hurt Star, but was that because the partner was basically forcing her or manipulating her into it?

There seems to be conflicting posts about how in one way Frankie was caring for Star in a normal way before she met the partner, and then another view where she was maliciously hurting her own child regularly.

Summerwashout · 13/08/2023 19:46

@Elizadoloads stars family were told off snd reports said to be malicious though

itsgettingweird · 13/08/2023 19:59

HmmOk · 13/08/2023 19:44

Did Frankie hurt Star before she was in the relationship with the murderer?

I know posters have said she did hurt Star, but was that because the partner was basically forcing her or manipulating her into it?

There seems to be conflicting posts about how in one way Frankie was caring for Star in a normal way before she met the partner, and then another view where she was maliciously hurting her own child regularly.

I've wondered this.

Star lived with her grandparents for a few months so I think there must have been care issues but I'm not sure about abuse.

PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog · 13/08/2023 20:04

The mother's learning difficulties are not relevant. She had capacity and knew right from wrong, else she would not have gone to trial. She may have been abused herself by her partner, but what she did to her baby was unforgivable. If she could not manage, she ought to have left the baby with family.

Elizadoloads · 13/08/2023 20:07

Summerwashout · 13/08/2023 19:46

@Elizadoloads stars family were told off snd reports said to be malicious though

I haven't read how involved social services were just that the calls weren't taken seriously. I just wondered if her family did just take star forcing the police to visit then surely it would force the authorities to listen.. I've seen a picture of Star with a bruised face it's truly horrific. I know nobody should have to go to these lengths but is that what it would take?

midlander79 · 13/08/2023 20:08

This issue of IQ/LD/immaturity, I do agree she should have been in receipt of support but as others have said it certainly wouldn't be the reason she thought it was okay to abuse. Most children don't deliberately and severely hurt children younger, smaller, more vulnerable than them.

It sounds as if she was easily manipulated by Brockhill as a result of those issues though. I wonder too if she'd hurt Star before she came along.

Oddly, I think I have encountered Brockhill before. I used to go in gay bars in Bradford quite often. She seems so familiar and I'm sure I had a conversation with her once. Agreed how she seems so 'normal', which is frightening.

A pp has suggested taking children, locking yourself in somewhere with them and calling emergency services if you're sure they're being abused (like Stars' aunt says she wishes she'd have effectively done, and Arthur's hairdresser).

Having worked for the police I'm skeptical this would achieve the desired result. Would they just speak to the parents, slap the 'kidnapper' on the wrist and refer to SS. I'm inclined to think so at least SOME officers anyway. If they interviewed the child (depending on age)would the child dare say anything.

I'm not sure.

Summerwashout · 13/08/2023 20:14

The ss said it was malicious and closed it down.

HmmOk · 13/08/2023 20:24

Most children don't deliberately and severely hurt children younger, smaller, more vulnerable than them.

Most don't.

For the ones that do, I'm not sure they truly understand what they are doing.

Does an 8 year old really grasp the permanence of death for example? I genuinely don't know the answer to this, I don't have a child and can't remember what I thought of the concept of death at age 8.

If Frankie has a mental age or 8 - 10 and was subjected to a chaotic childhood herself that did not really nurture or develop her to the best of her ability, did she really understand the things she was doing?

Did she understand the gravity of abusing her child and the effects that would have if the baby lived? Did she understand that enough injuries would lead to dying and the finality of that?

Or did she see the baby more as an animated doll, not really a person that she was meant to be taking care of and protecting and nurturing?

Guiltridden12345 · 13/08/2023 20:45

pumpkinspice87 · 13/08/2023 07:33

Yes, you are absolutely right. He would of course know more about the situation than anyone reading the article. I just find the case really distressing and it angers me to think what that poor child was put through.

It’s a horrific case and the true victim is that defenceless baby girl. But 70 is extremely low IQ. If you’ve met anyone who sits at that level, you will realise just how vulnerable people of this intelligence level can be. Easy to dupe and overpower, to influence and bully, to persuade and to frighten. Star is the primary victim but I agree that her mother was a victim of that monster too. That said, what she did (rather didn’t do) remains utterly unforgivable and I doubt society at large will give her much leeway for her crimes.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 13/08/2023 20:51

@Elizadoloads the police did do welfare checks. They were involved. They referred to SS.

Frankie Smith met Savannah Brockhill around October 2019. Savannah was 26 years old and worked as a security guard. We now know that Savannah had a history

Page |52
of domestic abuse with a previous partner and was made subject to a Restraining Order in 2015. There are consistent reports from family and friends about the change in Star after Frankie began her relationship with Savannah. There were also reports that Frankie was seen with bruises, possibly caused by Savannah, and that Savannah seemed to be controlling her. This control included restricting Star’s contact with other family members.
6.6 In January 2020 a domestic abuse organisation was working with a friend of the family who often looked after Star. The friend was worried about abuse in Frankie’s relationship with Savannah and Savannah’s physical chastisement of Star. Following a written referral, the police made a welfare check and a social worker completed a child and family assessment, having seen Star at a home visit. The final assessment did not report any child protection concerns. The main need identified for Star was accommodation for her and Frankie. A letter was sent to the Housing Department and the case was closed to children’s social care.
6.7 Meanwhile, family members describe Star in February 2020 as looking sad and depressed. Around this time Frankie asked Star’s great grandmother to look after her as she could not cope after Savannah had ended the relationship with her. When Star arrived at her great grandmother’s home, she had very bad nappy rash but soon began to thrive and become happy and content. She was able to crawl and walk around the furniture, was inquisitive, good fun and loved bath times. Star stayed with her great grandparents until April 2020 when, without any prior warning or discussion, Frankie removed Star from their care at the point when the relationship with Savannah resumed. Frankie and Star went back to live at Star’s grandmother’s house and Frankie stopped all contact with Star’s great grandparents. Paternal grandparents saw Star for the last time in March 2020, after which point they were also denied contact.
6.8 During May 2020, family members became increasingly concerned about the way that Savannah was treating Star. Star’s great grandmother made a referral to children’s social care on 4th May 2020 which resulted in an unannounced visit the next day. Frankie told the social worker that she felt the referral was malicious as Star’s great grandmother did not approve of same sex relationships. No visible injuries were seen, Star’s grandmother said she had no concerns and agreed to supervise contact between Star, Savannah and Frankie for the duration of the assessment.
6.9 On Sunday 21st June 2020 Star’s father contacted the Emergency Duty Team to say that he wanted to send some pictures of bruising on Star’s face that had been sent to him by a relative of Star. He was given the contact details of the allocated social worker and advised to call 101 which he did. A police officer spoke to Star’s

grandmother and another relative of Star at their home and then visited Star and Frankie, who had moved to live at Savannah’s home. The police officer observed three bruises to Star’s face which Frankie said had been caused by Star banging her head into a coffee table. Alerted by the police officer (who was concerned that accounts of how the bruising occurred were not consistent), the Emergency Duty Team and police safeguarding team agreed that a Child Protection Medical was needed. The medical examination was conducted the same day and concluded that the injuries were consistent with the explanation that Star’s mother had given of an accidental injury. Star was discharged from hospital into the care of her mother.
6.10 After the medical the single agency child and family assessment was completed and the case closed on 8th July 2020 with a note that the concerns were unsubstantiated and the original referral from great grandmother was recorded as malicious.
6.11 Meanwhile on 29th June 2020, Frankie informed the homeless partnership that she had been living with her partner for a month and had to leave and was therefore homeless. She was offered accommodation by a social housing project and moved with Star into her flat on 3rd July. Savannah remained a regular visitor to the home.
6.12 On 27th August 2020 Star was being looked after by a family friend. Another friend of the family was there and noticed bruises to her face which looked like finger marks. The friend took a video and sent it the next day to Star’s uncle. He shared the video with Star’s maternal great grandfather. Star’s father also saw a copy of the video and contacted the police on 31st August. The police tried to visit the home but were told that Star was with Frankie and Savannah in Scotland. The next day (1st September) Frankie called the GP to say that Star had sustained a cut lip when falling off cobbled steps and it was “swollen, oozing red and green stuff and split open.” The GP surgery was about to close for the day and the GP asked Frankie to call NHS 111. A safeguarding note was entered on the file. A health visitor was asked to make contact with Frankie routinely to deliver accident prevention advice.
6.13 On Tuesday 2nd September 2020 Star’s great grandfather contacted children’s social care as he had now seen the video of the bruises. The Integrated Front Door20 provided maternal grandfather with an email address to send in a copy of the video. A social worker in the IFD contacted Frankie, who said she had already contacted her previous social worker to say that Star had bruised herself falling downstairs. This call to the social worker was because her grandmother said she was going to inform children’s social care of the bruises seen on the video. Frankie said that she had also contacted her GP, who, as the surgery was about to close for the evening, had advised a call to 111 if she had concerns.
20 The Integrated Front Door (IFD) in Bradford is the service which receives contacts and referrals to children’s social care. In some areas, this is referred to as a Multi-Agency Safeguarding Hub (MASH).
CHILD PROTECTION IN ENGLAND 53

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6.14 The social worker in the IFD reviewed the previous case records, noting that this was the second time that Star had fallen, and there seemed to be a pattern. The social worker also checked the health records, which indicated that Frankie had not followed up the advice to call 111. As the bruising to Star had not been seen by a medical professional it was decided that a social worker should undertake a home visit to assess whether there was appropriate supervision by Star’s mother, and to address the numerous concerns raised by family members, some of which had previously been deemed to be malicious. The IFD contacted Frankie to arrange a home visit. Frankie told them that they were leaving at 4pm that day for a family holiday in Scotland and would be returning on Friday 4th September. The home visit was deferred until that date. Frankie told the IFD social worker that she was happy for the visit to take place at any time on the Friday. No specific time was set for the visit.
6.15 On 3rd September 2020 the GP, having seen that Frankie had not called 111, called her and offered a face-to-face appointment. Frankie said this was not possible as they were in Scotland. A booked call was arranged for the following morning and a face-to-face appointment for the afternoon.
6.16 On 4th September at 9.20am Frankie was called by the GP. She reported that Star’s lip injury was now healing and declined the face-to-face appointment booked for that afternoon.
6.17 At 11am, the social worker visited Star, Frankie and Savannah at Frankie’s home address. The social worker did not have a copy of the video showing the bruising to Star that had prompted maternal great grandfather’s concerns or the photo of bruising that had been sent to the police. The social worker noted that the home was clean, warm and tidy and there was a “good attachment” between Frankie and Star. Frankie “happily stripped Star” and bruises were seen but perceived to be consistent with normal bruising. The referral was once again deemed to be malicious and concerns were not substantiated.
6.18 At 17.25 on 4th September Frankie rang the GP because she had noticed blisters on Star’s tongue, something she had forgotten to mention in the call to the GP that morning.
6.19 The GP offered to see Star immediately. Frankie advised that this was not possible as they were in the car on the way to Doncaster. The GP told her they must access an emergency appointment at Doncaster and advised Frankie to ring NHS 111 to arrange this.

6.20 From early September 2020 it is clear that Frankie Smith and Savannah Brockhill acted to prevent professionals and family members from coming into contact with Star. A GP called Frankie on 7th September and she said that Star was now back to normal. After this, no professional saw Star or had contact with Frankie Smith before Star’s murder on 22nd September 2020.

Here's a fairly comprehensive timeline and all the agencies involved and reports made.

Elizadoloads · 13/08/2023 21:18

@AngryGreasedSantaCatcus
Thankyou, It's a horrible read and shows Stars mum was obviously smart enough to know that the abuse her daughter was suffering was wrong and to hide it.
I'm not sure I could forgive my daughter for this and have her back living with me after prison and hopefully it's never a position I'm put in.

Honestlyy · 13/08/2023 21:21

HmmOk · 13/08/2023 20:24

Most children don't deliberately and severely hurt children younger, smaller, more vulnerable than them.

Most don't.

For the ones that do, I'm not sure they truly understand what they are doing.

Does an 8 year old really grasp the permanence of death for example? I genuinely don't know the answer to this, I don't have a child and can't remember what I thought of the concept of death at age 8.

If Frankie has a mental age or 8 - 10 and was subjected to a chaotic childhood herself that did not really nurture or develop her to the best of her ability, did she really understand the things she was doing?

Did she understand the gravity of abusing her child and the effects that would have if the baby lived? Did she understand that enough injuries would lead to dying and the finality of that?

Or did she see the baby more as an animated doll, not really a person that she was meant to be taking care of and protecting and nurturing?

I grasped that death was permanent at 8, I'm not sure at what age I knew but I definitely knew at 8.

HmmOk · 13/08/2023 21:30

I grasped that death was permanent at 8, I'm not sure at what age I knew but I definitely knew at 8.

Fair enough I admit I have no idea how an 8 year old thinks of this stuff - my mum died this year and I'm struggling desperately with the "this is forever" sense of finality at nearly 40. I have just no idea how a child or someone with the intellectual age of a child would comprehend it.

Honestlyy · 13/08/2023 22:02

@HmmOk it's difficult to answer your questions. IME people with learning disabilities mostly do know right from wrong, they're often caring but it's common for them to lack empathy.

I'm not sure she would have been capable of fully considering the impact of her actions.

It's quite possible that she did view Star like that as she certainly didn't have empathy for her.

faithloveandpixiedust · 13/08/2023 22:08

I feel that the OP's anger seems to be misguided in the way it appears to be aimed at the Grandfather who is being interviewed in this article. It is clearly logged that the extended family fought to get their concerns recognised about the hideous treatment Star was receiving. Although I can understand and sympathise with the anger. The article seems incredibly distasteful and I have to admit that I find some of the things the Grandfather says to be misguided and inappropriate. Talking about how Frankie has made a group of friends in prison who are looking out for her is of course going to anger people when she completely failed to look out for her daughter. However, we can only speculate as to how much Frankie understood and how coerced she was. However, I do feel that for the judge to have passed the sentence that they did, they must have had evidence that she was aware that the abusive treatment of Star both she and her partner engaged in was wrong.
I also feel that some of the comments aimed at the OP in this thread were unnecessarily harsh. A child has died under horrific circumstances, it is distressing to read about. People have a right to be angry. That being said this thread was probably unnecessary. Also, I find it unforgiveable that people feel the need to talk about how intellectually inferior they find others to be because they read a certain type of newspaper and to view that a thread about a murdered child is the appropriate time to boast about that.

MiniTheMinx · 13/08/2023 22:37

Smith was found guilty of causing or allowing the child's death. As such the judge clearly felt that she had sufficient intellectual capacity to have done otherwise.

KingTriton · 13/08/2023 22:46

She may have had a low IQ but she certainly wasn't as stupid and naive as a lot of people seem to think.

I've seen lots of text exchanges between them on a YouTube video and she certainly doesn't come across as a victim. She was holding her own against Brockhill and they were both violent and threatening to each other. She fucking knew what she was doing.

Absolutely no sympathy here.

drpet49 · 13/08/2023 22:50

Busubaba · 13/08/2023 16:49

So many poster are ignoring the fact that Frankie herself also abused Star! It's on video eight times!

The judge said FRANKIE deserved ten years in jail time for the suffering SHE inflicted on her daughter Star.

The abuse and attacks may not have been as severe as how Savannah the girl friend carries out on the child but FRANKIE the mother ALSO inflicted pain and suffering on Star and that is why myself and other posters do not want her bringing another child into the world or even being near children again.

This , this and this!

Overthinkingperhaps · 13/08/2023 23:34

I absolutely don't buy that Frankie was a victim.
Yes she had an extremely low IQ but she wasn't just witness to the abuse. She abused too.
I have a relative with a very similar IQ to Frankie.
She lives independently (with family close by, helping her with things like making appts)
She's very childlike and probably easily led.

However, I 100% guarantee she would not sit back and watch abuse. Or inflict abuse.
She knows right from wrong.

I suspect Frankie did too.

That poor baby.

Startyabastard · 13/08/2023 23:37

I didn't know Star's family had tried to social service's intervention to that extent, especially her sisters.
I also didn't know that Frankie Smith was violent towards the child, I thought she had only allowed it to happen from her girlfriend.

Startyabastard · 13/08/2023 23:45

If any conclusions can be drawn from this, it is that clearly more support by a mile was needed and that they should have listened to the people making reports.
It has been said that social services didn't want to intervene because they didn't want to be seen as homophobic because they were in a gay relationship.

Ponoka7 · 14/08/2023 01:08

She has a higher IQ than Steven Barker (Baby P). I can understand why the family want her back, it protects society as much as it does her. Without their support she would be pregnant again. Realistically you could be looking at 5+ children being removed.