Mother of Star Hobson does not deserve sympathy

[pumpkinspice87]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12385875/amp/Family-murdered-Star-Hobson-looking-forward-welcoming-home-mother-allowed-toddler-die-hands-girlfriend-say-victim-tragedy.html

Am I being unreasonable to be absolutely sickened by this article? I get that this man is traumatised by what happened to his family, but how could anyone be so blinded as to see Star's mother as some sort of innocent victim? She was a cruel and neglectful mother who was too infatuated with her new partner to protect her baby daughter. Yes, I know she has a low IQ and learning difficulties. However, to use this as a constant excuse is an absolute insult to the many, many people in this country with learning difficulties (many of whom are parents) who would never, ever think it is acceptable to stand by and watch whilst their child is horrifically abused.

Not knowing the capital of Japan or the square root of 64, giving a low IQ score seems irrelevant.

An IQ score is indicative of things like logic skills and the ability to transfer life skills to other situations. A very low IQ as reported here is relevant because it indicates that she simply didn’t have the skills and personal tools to deal with the situation she found herself in. That’s precisely what makes her vulnerable.

I’m presuming her IQ score wasn’t low enough to be considered as not criminally responsible (age of criminal responsibility being 10) but there’s not enormously vast ground between the capabilities of a ten year old and, let’s say, a 15 yr old. Neither are particularly well known for making particularly ‘good’ decisions or having universal capabilities to deal with high stress situations.

What are you on about?! I’m not taking it personally at all?! I said in my first two messages that whilst I got there was nuance, I couldn’t see Stars mum or partner as anything but awful. I then commented that discussing sterilisation based on intellectual disability was wrong and going down a dangerous path. I said - very clearly - that sterilisation based upon child murder is one thing, but based upon intelligence is very very different. I have not defended Stars mother, quite the opposite.

I don’t know why you’re trying to fight me, but your arguments make zero sense and are not relevant. You clearly haven’t read the full thread, or at least, all of my posts. So please stop trying to argue with me with baseless arguments and pick on someone else.

So sterilisation is awful but an intellectually disabled woman having children she can't look after who then face a chaotic and unsafe upbringing and then possible further trauma of being removed from her isnt?

i said this thread was getting dangerous. And it is. But you keep attacking me for no reason and it’s weird. And rude. I am not going to indulge your silliness any more, you’re being ridiculous m. You’re misquoting be, putting words in my mouth and generally attacking me for no reason.

Have a lovely day, I won’t be reading your responses. Very odd.

I've worked with people with LDs, most I can imagine getting caught up in situations like this tbh so I do have a degree of sympathy for Smith. It can be a very frustrating group to work with as they are usually extremely vulnerable yet are deemed to have capacity so are free to make 'poor decisions' whilst those around them are left with very few options to intervene.

However, I'm pretty sure there was evidence of Frankie abusing Star when Savannah wasn't even present and she must've had some understanding that what was happening was wrong as she played a huge role in hiding Stars abuse, so I do think she deserved a lengthy sentence. Ultimately Savannah would not have been able to murder Star without Frankie's willingness, and capacity, to deceive services and her family.

I think there was a 'perfect storm' of lots of factors which led to poor Stars death, but Frankie was very much part of that storm - she's probably safer in prison really.

Where do you draw the line though? That’s my problem with sterilisation and eugenics. It’s a mine field. The reason why I referenced my ADHD which another poster is seemingly finding so offensive, is that it’s rocky ground because once you declare one condition, where does it end. I find it dangerous.

Where do you draw the line though? That’s my problem with sterilisation and eugenics

This one killed her child (or allowed it to happen) and actively abused a baby. She's not just learning disabled! That's a pretty good line to draw

This has fuck all to do with disability and everything to do with abuse

You have low intellectual capability and have a baby? Either accept support from SS + family or baby is removed

You kill a baby? You go to prison and a condition go release is long term contraception/sterilisation and you can never parent again. That goes for anyone of any intellectual level

Where is the eugenics here?

As I have said, repeatedly, I am not talking about the sterilisation of child murderers!!! I was responding to someone who said low IQ people shouldn’t be allowed to have children.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I am not talking about Star’s mother in particular.

Idk. It seems she was the victim of a domestic violence situation. Yes she should have protected Star but we all know thousands of women stay with their abusers out of fear.

She also had learning difficulties which will have made it even harder to recognise what could happen.

I actually think you're a bit weird for making this thread. Dwelling in a story of tragedy and getting your pitchfork out for the mother who was in a terrible situation as though you know anything more than what you've read in a few articles.

I'm not suggesting everyone person with LD should be sterilised, it should be on a case by case basis. Most of the time the contraceptive injection is enough. I've worked with women with IQs of around 55-65,it's in their best interests to not reproduce.

Star's mother should definitely be sterilised because she was complicit in the abuse and murder of her daughter and will very likely be abused by a predator again.

I think the social workers who closed the case the week before as 'malicious' should very much spend time in prison for their negligence and utter incompetence

So many poster are ignoring the fact that Frankie herself also abused Star! It's on video eight times!

The judge said FRANKIE deserved ten years in jail time for the suffering SHE inflicted on her daughter Star.

The abuse and attacks may not have been as severe as how Savannah the girl friend carries out on the child but FRANKIE the mother ALSO inflicted pain and suffering on Star and that is why myself and other posters do not want her bringing another child into the world or even being near children again.

She wants the same thing done to her and see how she likes it?

Descending into savagery won't make the world a better place.

It was her own mother who held her daughters head under the water in a bath as punishment for crying.. that thing doesn't get any sympathy from me.

There was actual video evidence of that being discussed/argued between the two about that happening. They should both rot

Where were social services in all this? The alarm raised multiple times yet no meaningful action? Particularly with a vulnerable young person with a low IQ being the main carer for a vulnerable toddler.

The world's already rotten.

If people knew they were going to get the same treatment it might stop a few.

Prison does not frighten people.

I think I’d knock my sister out if I witnessed her slapping my niece across the face 😬

I don't know...we've had a lot of very nasty punishments in the past and if they were effective deterrents, they wouldn't have been employed as often as they were.

It's almost as if the problem, and its causes, are a bit more complicated than that.

OK I hadn't seen this bit. Yes that's not just a victim then.

@ohfook agree.

I dont feel any. Sympathy for her though. But I know it's hard for people to understand what a low iq means and feeling fear over controlling partner.

@lemmein I've seen that also.

Some basic lessons a out respect and healthier relationships would be a good start.

Same.
I watched a documentary by a criminal psychologist about Arthur Labino Hughes. (Another little child murdered by his step mum)
She said that like Star his family had continuously voiced concerns about abuse. On the morning of his murder the step mum had taken him with her to the hairdressers and a staff member had noticed all of his injuries and that he practically begged for a glass of water 😢
I think he reported her again but was obviously to late, she said if you are ever in a situation like this then the best thing to do is take the child, lock the door and call social services and the police.. don't worry about getting yourself in trouble do whatever is needed to get the relevant attention for the safety of that child.
I wonder if Stars auntie had took star and run (she said she wished she had) star would be alive today. I'm in no way blaming the wider family as it's a position you shouldn't have to consider but maybe that's what it takes.

If you knew how scummy the media actually are you'd know it's hardly ever this clear cut.

Journalists say "we're writing x piece - this is your only chance of having your say, we're writing it anyway"

Pretend they can help the cause / prevent further atrocities through their coverage.

Or perhaps yes, they offered him £££ and he's skint. And he thinks it's his chance of having his say too.

We also know some media outlets threaten and blackmail and spy.