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Original poster

Tradwives

238 replies

babysharkdoodoodedoodedoo · 12/08/2023 17:12

Whilst mindlessly scrolling through Instagram the other day, a video came up on my feed (whatever that section is called where they post suggested videos) of a ‘tradwife’ - an American woman (she must have been no older than 24) who was actively promoting a traditional married lifestyle - a man as provider, woman as homemaker, with the man as the ‘leader’ of the family and the wife submitting to her husband’s leadership. She posts videos of herself cooking and cleaning and dressing up for her husband every day, and regularly speaks about how she has certain rules for herself to keep herself in her place, like not going out after dark without her husband, asking her husbands permission before she does things. I got the impression that she likes this lifestyle and has chosen it and he goes along with it - she’s always talking about how it was her lifelong dream to live like this. She’s even started dressing in retro housewife outfits - like a sort of 1950s vibe. Don’t get me wrong, she looks amazing and seems very happy. I was intrigued about this movement and when I Googled it, it seems that this is a growing movement with lots of people posting about it and promoting the lifestyle. I was so surprised as I’ve never really met anyone like this. I was wondering if anyone on Mumsnet is a part of this movement (or even just follows this lifestyle/holds these beliefs in private). No reason really other than curiosity!

OP posts:
forgetmenottt · 14/08/2023 10:20

Whatwouldscullydo · 14/08/2023 10:02

When did this become a thing. I mean during the wars when the men were called in didnt the women run the country. Weren't they every thing in every job men had? Haven't women been working for decades now. What role from what time is it they are really taking on?

Besides as pp have said if they really wanted to live that live go somewhere where youn can't even receive medical treatment if a man doesn't agree who will then ditch you for whatever woman next takes his fancy. Even having a platform proves its all one big cos play. That would not he allowed under a real situation like this.

But hey free choice and all that. Thats ultimately what women fought for to have choices and rights so they can do what they want. But I do wonder how you keep conversation fresh when you've done fuck all but cook and clean all day.

Because some women would rather look after the home than the office?

asterdaisy · 14/08/2023 10:26

@forgetmenottt but this rarely happened in the past.
In the past you had rich women and men like now who did not really work or just had hobby jobs.
Then you had women and men who had to work. Many women worked in the home, but they really worked. They grew vegetables, kept chickens, washed clothes without machines, made clothes, mended clothes and linen, canned and preserved food, plucked chickens etc. old recipe books include how to pluck a chicken, and how to gut deer and fish.
Our idea of a housewife was only possible relatively recently.

forgetmenottt · 14/08/2023 10:32

asterdaisy · 14/08/2023 10:26

@forgetmenottt but this rarely happened in the past.
In the past you had rich women and men like now who did not really work or just had hobby jobs.
Then you had women and men who had to work. Many women worked in the home, but they really worked. They grew vegetables, kept chickens, washed clothes without machines, made clothes, mended clothes and linen, canned and preserved food, plucked chickens etc. old recipe books include how to pluck a chicken, and how to gut deer and fish.
Our idea of a housewife was only possible relatively recently.

Errrrr no idea what you are going on about.

Using the same logic, Plenty of women don't work and are on benefits. Therefore housewives.

You can accept some women don't want to work in an office and would rather look after their home? And that's their job right? That's their preference.

asterdaisy · 14/08/2023 10:35

It's their preference. But the idea of a housewife who does a bit of hoovering and dusting is a very modern idea.
Personally I think it is an incredibly boring life, but up to the individual

forgetmenottt · 14/08/2023 10:37

asterdaisy · 14/08/2023 10:35

It's their preference. But the idea of a housewife who does a bit of hoovering and dusting is a very modern idea.
Personally I think it is an incredibly boring life, but up to the individual

You under estimate what a trad wife is....

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 14/08/2023 10:38

forgetmenottt · 14/08/2023 10:32

Errrrr no idea what you are going on about.

Using the same logic, Plenty of women don't work and are on benefits. Therefore housewives.

You can accept some women don't want to work in an office and would rather look after their home? And that's their job right? That's their preference.

Show quote history

I can accept that it might be their preference. I don't agree that it's a job.

forgetmenottt · 14/08/2023 10:49

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves it's not a job. A job is where you get paid. You don't get paid for being a housewife, you don't have an employer.

Instead you have decided to be the home maker and not have employment.:::

LolaSmiles · 14/08/2023 11:07

DinoDough

There's a lot of whataboutery there. It feels a bit like trying to get into a purity spiral in a bid to push sex-work as a wonderful choice for women.

If you want to take a "you do you" everything is about choice approach to feminism that's fine.If you think feminism means viewing sex work as a positive step for empowered women then that's ok. You, like anyone else, is entitled to have a view.

The reality is that many feminists view the sex work industry as harmful to women because it is based on harmful and misogynistic assumptions about women and the value of women. Choices aren't made in a vacuum.

Back to the topic of the thread, women can structure their family lives and relationships as they see fit. Feminists, like anyone else, are free to question the assumptions and ideologies being pushed that are harmful to women.

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:13

BumpyaDaisyevna · 14/08/2023 10:12

I think what they miss is that they exercise a choice to live this way.

That choice is available in the western democracy in which they live.

If they lived in Afghanistan it would not be a choice.

If they lived in the west in medieval times it would not be a choice.

That's the difference. They're not true "trad" wives - as there is the choice and if they wanted to live differently that would be perfectly possible with the society they live in.

There are lots of women working in Afghanistan. My husbands auntie is a school teacher there. My cousin works in a solicitors doing admin. My cousins are over 25 and still not married because they chose not to. Not every single woman in Afghanistan is a stay at home mother and wife. My mother in law worked as a lawyer back in the 80s.

Selfraisings · 14/08/2023 11:19

TheLeadbetterLife · 12/08/2023 17:22
I think women these days can choose to cosplay this stuff purely because of the freedoms won for them by previous generations of feminists.

if they HAD to be domestic slaves they would be putting their heads in ovens.

I’d have no problem with it if they at least acknowledged the reality of this crucial context

this exactly! If its forced kn you by a cultural thing with no choice then its a totally differnent thing! Some women who are white middle class etc know that this is a choice born out of privilege to do so .

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:19

MangshorJhol · 14/08/2023 09:04

And how does it matter if your husband taught you how to cook and clean? I learned many things from my husband and he has learned stuff from me.

You could be cooking and cleaning half the time, your husband half the time and both of you could have had jobs.

You are saying you become a SAHM to prove some point to your mother who didn’t teach you how to cook and clean? So you are trying to be the very best housewife you can be?!

I have worked. I can go back to my career if I choose to. Maybe I will when my children go to high school.

If I worked, and my husband still worked and his career is not a 9-5 job. Nobody would be around for the children and there is no way that strangers raising my children while I work is better for my children. Confused I don't think I need to justify putting my children in 7-8 childcare when I don't NEED to. It's my choice.

Why are women's choices criticised when we choose to stay home.

Regarding the comment below. My child is 5. Of course she will assume I'm the next available option if her husband is working as her father is working. It's quite low clutching at what a 5 year old is saying Grin

Caprisunny · 14/08/2023 11:23

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:19

I have worked. I can go back to my career if I choose to. Maybe I will when my children go to high school.

If I worked, and my husband still worked and his career is not a 9-5 job. Nobody would be around for the children and there is no way that strangers raising my children while I work is better for my children. Confused I don't think I need to justify putting my children in 7-8 childcare when I don't NEED to. It's my choice.

Why are women's choices criticised when we choose to stay home.

Regarding the comment below. My child is 5. Of course she will assume I'm the next available option if her husband is working as her father is working. It's quite low clutching at what a 5 year old is saying Grin

Show quote history

So you aren’t a trad wife?

How does your lifestyle fit with your religious values?

I was unaware of a religious values that say you should stay home until kids are in high school.

Who is letting strangers raise their kids?

Angrycat2768 · 14/08/2023 11:25

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:13

There are lots of women working in Afghanistan. My husbands auntie is a school teacher there. My cousin works in a solicitors doing admin. My cousins are over 25 and still not married because they chose not to. Not every single woman in Afghanistan is a stay at home mother and wife. My mother in law worked as a lawyer back in the 80s.

Show quote history

How nanny women do you think will be working as solicitors in Afghsnistan now? How many women will be schoolteachers once the Taliban have banned girls from being educated after the age of 12? Have you converted to Islam? I presume your mother was not a ' tradwife' but you have chosen to be because you married into a far more traditional religious family, or converted.

zoomingale · 14/08/2023 11:33

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:13

There are lots of women working in Afghanistan. My husbands auntie is a school teacher there. My cousin works in a solicitors doing admin. My cousins are over 25 and still not married because they chose not to. Not every single woman in Afghanistan is a stay at home mother and wife. My mother in law worked as a lawyer back in the 80s.

Show quote history

Yeah, clearly women in Afghanastan are doing just fine. 🙄

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:44

@Caprisunny who else would raise my children if me and my husband both work full time? We don't have family help. It would be strangers.

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:47

@Angrycat2768 I reverted to Islam when I was 18. 6 years before I met my husband.

And my husbands family isn't conservative or extremely religious. All my husbands sisters are working career women. One is a stay at home wife. My mother in law works in Europe.

Tbh I'm probably not even a trad wife, just a stay at home wife and mother for the time being Grin

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:48

@zoomingale I'm not saying all. Some families have different circumstances. Everyone is worried for the generation of women there, I was just stating that women are still working

MangshorJhol · 14/08/2023 11:54

Nice dig there about women who send their kids to ‘strangers’ to bring up. I wonder why since you were so educated and had a career did you guys not choose eg to go part time each so your child wouldn’t be left to ‘strangers’? Why was it ASSUMED that you would be the one at home and not your DH?
and if the answer is his earning potential is more then ask yourself this:
young men and women go to Universities and get the same degrees. Why is it that within a DECADE of that men are out earning the women so that the women then feel that it is better that their career is sacrificed for their kids not their husbands??

Incidentally I am South Asian and both I and my husband (who is a physician in the US and also South Asian) worked flexible hours so our kids didn’t spend too much time in childcare. His career suffered a bit. My career suffered a bit. But it was never assumed that only I would be going part time.

zoomingale · 14/08/2023 11:57

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:48

@zoomingale I'm not saying all. Some families have different circumstances. Everyone is worried for the generation of women there, I was just stating that women are still working

Yeah a few, in a very limited number of fields.

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:58

MangshorJhol · 14/08/2023 11:54

Nice dig there about women who send their kids to ‘strangers’ to bring up. I wonder why since you were so educated and had a career did you guys not choose eg to go part time each so your child wouldn’t be left to ‘strangers’? Why was it ASSUMED that you would be the one at home and not your DH?
and if the answer is his earning potential is more then ask yourself this:
young men and women go to Universities and get the same degrees. Why is it that within a DECADE of that men are out earning the women so that the women then feel that it is better that their career is sacrificed for their kids not their husbands??

Incidentally I am South Asian and both I and my husband (who is a physician in the US and also South Asian) worked flexible hours so our kids didn’t spend too much time in childcare. His career suffered a bit. My career suffered a bit. But it was never assumed that only I would be going part time.

That might work for your family.

I've had lots of digs about my choices. It's not a dig it's the truth. It's something I'm not comfortable with. My husbands career earns way more than mine. Because he chose to study 8 years in total where as I studied 3.

If for example I landed a job that would even out the scales then fair enough, if he could be home when I'm working etc then vice versa, even if it had family help. Then I wouldn't mind having a part time job. I do earn money occasionally free lancing it just isn't stable.

For the first two years of my daughters life, I worked evening shifts from home but I suffered. My husbands rota changes weekly, I was doing all the work and working. If I worked out, paying for a cleaner etc and making my life easier then it just wasn't worth it

MangshorJhol · 14/08/2023 12:05

See my husband outearns me a lot. But still considers my career (I have a PhD and I am a University professor so I have studied for well more than 8 years) as valuable as his.

I am pointing out to you that is fine to make the choices you do but those choices are a product of the unequal world we live in. And your daughter and son will be picking up on that inequality as they grow up.

Why were you doing all the housework when you were working btw?! If you were out on a shift I would expect your husband to be doing housework. I would expect him to be cleaning and doing laundry on the weekend, maybe batch cooking. Taking the kids out so you can get a lie in. That’s how genuinely equal families even if both are not earning the same work.

If you want to argue that staying at home is as valuable as working out of the home (which is a fair point), then from the moment your husband walks in you are both equal. You have worked 9-5 looking after your children. He has worked 9-5 in a different job. At that point though are your lives equal? On MN it never is. Ever. Women are frequently working a ‘double shift’- they work and do the housework while the menfolk just get to work. Even on weekends when both are supposedly free the vast majority of women do far more housework and spend time on their kids than their men.

That you and so many others are not questioning this is inherent inequality and assuming that’s how life is, worries me.

Flickersy · 14/08/2023 12:10

I can sort of see the appeal.

If I didn't have to work I'd love to stay at home and do my cooking / baking / sewing (all hobbies I enjoy), keep the house clean, and have more animals I could look after. We have a few chickens, I would like to breed them and also raise pigs.

Unfortunately I earn almost double what my partner earns (I have a finance-adjacent job in the City) and we could never afford it. But I'd be lying if I said that my professional qualifications and my long hours are what I want to do with my life. It's not. I do it because I have to. I'm tired and stressed all the time though (this is not through partner not pulling his weight, if anything he's far more of a clean freak than I am and we don't presently have children to look after).

Sometimes I look at things like this and feel slightly envious.

CyberCritical · 14/08/2023 12:14

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:44

@Caprisunny who else would raise my children if me and my husband both work full time? We don't have family help. It would be strangers.

You and your husband would raise them, you would use childcare during working hours but just like with every other working family you would RAISE your children.

Nursery/childminders don't raise children, they care for them for a few hours a day while their parents work.

Caprisunny · 14/08/2023 12:16

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 11:44

@Caprisunny who else would raise my children if me and my husband both work full time? We don't have family help. It would be strangers.

No one has strangers looking after their children.

why would you think if you didn’t stay home then you have to leave your children with strangers?

vimtogirl · 14/08/2023 12:22

@CyberCritical it wouldn't be a few hours. I don't mind putting my 5 year old in after school clubs for a hour or so. She enjoys them.

But I don't feel comfortable putting a 1 and 2 year old in a nursery from 8-6. That's my choice. Unless I was forced to. And I would never do that. Especially when I don't need to.

@MangshorJhol you have gave me a lot of food for thought and I hope my daughter marries a man with the same values as your husband. You sound like a great team.