Tradwives

[babysharkdoodoodedoodedoo]

Whilst mindlessly scrolling through Instagram the other day, a video came up on my feed (whatever that section is called where they post suggested videos) of a ‘tradwife’ - an American woman (she must have been no older than 24) who was actively promoting a traditional married lifestyle - a man as provider, woman as homemaker, with the man as the ‘leader’ of the family and the wife submitting to her husband’s leadership. She posts videos of herself cooking and cleaning and dressing up for her husband every day, and regularly speaks about how she has certain rules for herself to keep herself in her place, like not going out after dark without her husband, asking her husbands permission before she does things. I got the impression that she likes this lifestyle and has chosen it and he goes along with it - she’s always talking about how it was her lifelong dream to live like this. She’s even started dressing in retro housewife outfits - like a sort of 1950s vibe. Don’t get me wrong, she looks amazing and seems very happy. I was intrigued about this movement and when I Googled it, it seems that this is a growing movement with lots of people posting about it and promoting the lifestyle. I was so surprised as I’ve never really met anyone like this. I was wondering if anyone on Mumsnet is a part of this movement (or even just follows this lifestyle/holds these beliefs in private). No reason really other than curiosity!

She knowingly let a pedophile around her children. When he's released she'll do the same. I hope they're all taken away from her. It's disgusting.

It wasn't "gwenthemilkmaid" was it? She's gone from doing ASMR on YouTube and OnlyFans to being tradwife/anti vaxx etc. If that's the life she wants to lead that's up to her obviously and has no effect on me. I just wonder how they suddenly decide this life is what they want?

I think people are welcome to make that choice if they want, though as @EvilElsa says, some of the tiktok/YouTube tradwives also feed into far right conspiralunacy as well unfortunately

It’s the children in these families I feel sorry for.

for The girls no value is placed in their education - they are trained to see themselves as less then men.

the boys grow up to believe women should serve them. I manage a lot of men and you can tell the ones who really struggle with a female boss.

probably all fake anyway. SM is a place for fantasy. I doubt that's how they actually live their real lives? but if they do and it makes them happy... Good for them?

This is all great if your husband is decent, pays for your pension snd gives you your own money. Often the ones who want a tradwife are not. They go out and shag other women even they should be 'working long hours to provide for the family'. It's all a silly fantasy. A bit like the #lazy girl trend. They monetise not doing much, by selling their apparent lifestyles to gullible followers. At least the Lazy girls can get a better job when they get bored. The Tradwives are left with multiple children with an absent father and no skills or means of supporting themselves.

I cant really get worked up about it. At least both parties know their roles. How many women do we see on mumsnet working full time, earning more than their husband, doing all the housework, cooking, making his lunch packing, planning, childcare arrangements and rov5iding weekend entertainment to the kids?

To top it off, these issues usually only become apparent after the woman has started a thread about the husband feeling hard done by for some reason, like not getting enough sex or wife unenthusiastic about paying for and entertaining her stepchildren all weekend whilst ill while he goes to 8 hours of football with his season ticket, that she paid for of course.

Arguably those women have it worse all round.

Is this the same as the “surrendered wife” notion years ago? It sounds like a false construct for all concerned and leaves women vulnerable financially etc.

In the vast majority of cases they have been raised (indoctrinated) to believe this as a part of a very strict religious upbringing.

Who does it benefit, do you think?

This is an excellent point. Raising the misogynists and rapists of the future.

I think you should be able to live the life you wish to, and if you can afford it and want to (and have financial protection/or are married etc) - then be a SAHM if you want.

But framing and context is important - there’s a difference between a SAHM as agreed by both partners that it’s what works for the family and she’s valued as part of an equal partnership - than someone who is a SAHM and must ‘submit’ to her husband and have no say in how the household is run or family decisions. I’ve seen quite a few ‘tradwives’ who belong to the latter, and there’s sometimes an alt right association as what a woman ‘should’ be, which makes me uncomfortable.

100% this. When they spout off without acknowledging the freedoms that they have, they sound very thick indeed.

Spot on. It's also a kind of showing off, because let's face it, not many families can survive on just one income these days.

Honestly it comes across like a kind of kink thing to me. Like, it's self-imposed because she gets off on being submissive, and her husband being dominant, and they're just doing it 24/7.

As opposed to it being a true theft of individual freedom and bodily autonomy imposed by the law/religion/patriarchy/misogyny, like it is/was in "real" life.

Play acting I suppose. But until they admit this, I'm gonna judge them badly for trying to promote this rubbish outside of consensual BDSM practices.

There’s an article in today’s Guardian about how this Tradwife thing in America has become a stepping stone towards alt-right or alt-lite politics, how these women actually wield massive unnoticed political power (it was women like this who organised the logistics of the Jan 6 riots), and how often they will go on to spew conspiracy theories. Marjorie Taylor-Greene was cited as spouting the sort of nonsense you hear at the extreme end.

It’s not innocuous TikTok’s and Insta posts. Over there it has real-world consequences.

It's not about a "movement" - it is about adults having the right to choose how they live their lives. Some women choose to be homemakers - others choose a career outside the home. Either way this is what women's lib was about - the right to choose.

Omg I'm slightly obsessed by these women. They keep popping up on my algorithm because I followed a few small holders hippy types and there is some cross over. Also now getting some dubious qanon anti vax stuff which isn't great!

Agree with previous posters it's just a manufactured fantasy for social media. Also they do have jobs as influencers even if they are not selling stuff. They get a lot of meaning and fulfillment over social media engagement so all the stuff about only needing to be domestic is rubbish! I don't think they would exist without insta or tik tok.

Also sidenote: Most women in history have worked in some way even if it was historically a business in the home. The model of one breadwinner is very new and and bit of a fallacy that was popular briefly in the 50s economic boom.

This is a really good point. What kind of incongruent life lessons are they teaching their kids?

The girls will feel useless outside the home (or, offline) and the boys will not be able to handle the real world either, where women have all kinds of roles and power over them outside of their home, eg at university, work, in medical care, criminal justice etc.

Ooh I once went down a rabbit hole of this extreme content, a lot of it religious driven but not all. I was trying to figure out what was going on in the women’s heads.

I always suspect they had poor childhoods and now want to be “babied” and taken care of.

They never felt parental love, so submitting to an omnipotent authority figure is their way of feeling worthy.

Also, perhaps they feel love has to be earned as they are unworthy, hence all the stuff about service and submission to their husband.

Conversely I do know women (and in fact a man) who just being domestic instead of chasing career success, and also feel content simply from making others (like their family) happy. That’s a genuine preference I feel, different from the kind of emotionally scarred women posting stuff about women knowing their place, submission and obedience, etc.

This is true. Until they start telling their daughters they have to submit to men and cannot say no, and teaching their sons they're in charge of women.

I always wondered how they would react if their husbands (daddies really - though the trad wife thing is not to be confused with daddy’s little girl which is on the other end of the religious/conservativeness spectrum 😅) permanently confiscated their Instagram and Facebook accounts. And also locked them up in the house. Is it really any fun to be a tradwife when it’s no longer a performance for an online cult or local community?

I agree, however having delved into the background a lot via Duggarsnark it is extraordinary how abusively sheltered her life was, hers and her sister Priscilla. It seems she was only told what sex was on her marriage night, and the marriage was really brokered by her parents and the duggars, who were looking for someone really clueless.

But you are right and I will be surprised if her children are allowed to stay with her when he is out. Hopefully mostly grown up by then too.

Apparently incest and abuse is rife in that whole religious community.

Exactly! As long as everyone is happy, I have no roubles with how they chose to live their lives

I’d love to know how this works out for her when she’s 34 and 44…

I suppose I’m intrigued by it because it’s simultaneously my worst nightmare and also now a bit of a dream (as long as it’s just a game and not real). Me and DH are very much equals and I’d never have married him if we weren’t! I’d have been horrified if, when I met him, he suggested I shouldn’t work and just stay home to cook and clean and have certain rules to follow. However now as a busy mum with a full time job and also studying and trying to stay on top of cleaning and just all the general stuff that people have to do, a part of me thinks it would be lovely to pack it all in and spend my days trying our new recipes and keeping on top of the cleaning while drinking coffee and reading books and wearing nice dresses 😁 but I am sure that the novelty would wear off for me very, very quickly!