To feel this down about early getups

[Itsthemornings]

So we have a nearly 3 yo and newborn. Nearly 3yo wakes at 5 or half four every single day. Thought this might have got better when he dropped his nap but it hasn’t.

Nothing seems to make any difference, and I don’t really understand it as he’s tired but can’t get him back to sleep. It’s always been tough but now with a newborn the level of sleep deprivation is horrendous.

If you had an early waker, when did it improve? I don’t want him to stay in bed until 9 or anything but 6/half 6 would be fine.

There’s nothing abnormal about a not quite 3 year old preferring parental engagement to toys, not being able to manage the impulse to seek what they want when they want (waking up a parent), having limited capacity for sustained self directed play, or not being interested in audiobooks / tv. Anyone suggesting this is ‘special needs’ is just trying to wind you up.

in 6 months some or all of that will change. Mine were pretty similar at that age, though one was an early bird and the other a night owl, which brings its own challenges. Mine also were not interested in tv or audio books at that age, but a year later we’re obsessed to the point where we had to have a really strict structure for screen time to keep them from obsessing all day about it. Mine would happily play on their own throughout the day for 30+ mins at a time, but just as often needed parental input and had limited capacity for self-regulation - expecting them to independently initiate a sustained period of independent play first thing would not have been realistic. A year later it was something we could reasonably start working on.

The challenge is figuring out how to survive the next year or so - I was chronically exhausted, but dh and I had a rule about taking turns sleeping in one day over the weekend while the other dealt with kids, and that helped me maintain sanity.

My DD slept 7pm-gone 8am until she was 2 then it was 5am maybe half past on a good day she must have been up earlier too as she would often burst into my room shouting morning in a full on fancy dress costume 🙈 .. I tried everything, later bedtime ( made it worse as she’d be up at 5 and grumpy ) .. from about age 4 it’s been around 6am .. shes 8 now and most days it’s 6/7( which tbf is fine as we have to leave at 7.30am days I’m at work) occasionally after a very late night now she sleeps til 9am she’s just a morning person I now go to bed earlier so don’t mind the early mornings as much.

Apologies but my son has always been an early riser, and now age 11 he still wakes by 6 every single day.. 🙈 that's not what you want to hear but at least as they get older they can entertain themselves for a while..

I can't fathom why you've posted.
Of course it gets better, as in once he's old enough to pop downstairs, stick cereal in a bowl and pour a juice ( age 7/8) mine were pretty good at that age.

However, people are kindly offering you help.
If your child has other issues other than just early waking, I'd say there's more going on.

A nearly 3yr old who doesnt listen to any instruction/praise/rules seems off to me. If you play to a child's every whim when they scream or stomp their feet, it won't just be hell for 3/4 years!

I think you are being extremely rude to posters op
People are genuinely trying to help.
If nothing works, have you thought about a sleep therapist?

@Labraradabrador - she said he wouldn't understand audiobooks. For an almost 3 yo that's unusual. The only reason I said about him being NNT is that I think his behaviour is quite unusual for a child of that age. At 3 most children understand groclocks, even if they don't like them. They tend to like CBeebies ( I don't know anyone who still has to watch it live and doesn't have favoured programmes they can watch on iPlayer on auto play).

I have an autistic child incidentally. He slept much better cosleeping so I did that. I appreciate that's harder with a newborn but I'm assuming the OP has a partner, given she says 'we'.

Thanks for saying this.

All I can say is he does attend nursery and he has been seen for the 2 year checks by HV and no concerns re ND have been raised. That’s not to say there’s definitely not any but at the moment have to assume NT. after all, the world isn’t divided into compliant people who are NT and awkward sods who are ND. Plenty of ND children and people are compliant and eager to please and plenty of NTs are contrary, non compliant and generally like the wonky trolley at the supermarket.

Re TV, he will watch some TV, just not CBeebies. It just doesn’t really interest him
at the moment. He does like this awful annoying Gecko’s Garage if anyone has experienced this ‘joy’ and occasionally will tolerate Mr Tumble for a bit. He used to like Julia Donaldson adaptations as well but again has gone off them. He’ll probably like them again in a month. Point is though, when he’s up so early, it ends up being too much screen time even if he was the sort of kid who would sit quietly in front of Hey Duggee for hours I wish. By the way, he hates Bluey but I’m with him on that and I know that makes us both outliers.

He isn’t potty trained so leaving him listening to an audiobook in a wet nappy without a drink or any food … yeah I don’t think I’m OK with that even if he would lie quietly he won’t

And his brother is probably going to be just the same <sob>

Yes, we have always had a lie in each at the weekend unless really extenuating circumstances. A couple of hours doesn’t make up for the rest of the week, but mentally it helps. Our eldest is now 13 and we still do it. Tbh we fucked up by having a bonus child when our middle child was nearly 6, we were nearly out of the woods in terms of having to be up with a child! Youngest is now nearly 6 and wouldn’t go down without a grown up anyway. I too would leave the newborn sleeping (fingers crossed) and take him down for lazy games that ideally can be played while lying on the sofa, or head out into the garden or whatever. As he grows he will start liking a programme or something, Mr. Tumble was always the winner here. Or the Octonaughts.

Try to get to bed early and eat well, this time does pass.

You should get to bed. You're up early tomorrow.

Similar age gap, and a just turned 3 year old. Early riser from... birth 5am wake up consistently for over two years at least. Plus multiple wake ups in the night.

The Clock That Shall Not Be Named didn't work few months ago. However I tried it again recently and I've seen a big improvement by doing as PP suggested. I bribe with chocolate. Sleep in your bed all night until the clock is orange and you get a chocolate, and a HUGE amount of fuss made. Calls to grandparents (fake ones) telling them the good news etc. At first I set it to 4.45am and worked my way forward by literally two minutes at a time.

I now have a child who sleeps in bed all night and gets up at 6am every day, for the price of a Cadburys Giant Button. I never thought this possible.

No offence, but what have you got to lose by trying peoples suggestions again? My kid didn't like sweetcorn last week, doesn't mean I'm not going to try serving it again.

What do you do when you get up with him? If he likes whatever you are doing - having breakfast, playing- there is no reason for him to stop. He is a child and doesn't know that you are dying of sleep deprivation.

Your previous posts make clear that arent willing to let him be bored or upset in any way for an hour, even for a trial period.

You need to put your own life vest on. When I had a baby i literally felt like a child abuser if i left him for even 5 minutes for a shower or a poo. Now I look back and wonder what I was thinking. Even medical professionals say that it's fine to leave a baby to cry to get yourself together and keep baby safe. A child wont die from an hour if boredom. As long as they are safe, clean fed and watered and he has toys to play with, you really arent responsible for entertaining him at that time. He can play with his toys for an hour or watch some telly, he chooses not to. How do you deal with unacceptable behaviour normally?

You need to own your choice to start your day at 430am. Go to bed earlier. What is your husband doing? Why can't you take DS for a walk if husband is home with your newborn? Can DS have some sleepovers at grandparents house?

@Clymene well my children were equally ‘unusual’ by your estimation at a similar age to the op, yet are doing just fine a few years on.

kids this age develop quickly- even a month or two can bring big changes, and 3 might look different to ‘almost 3’. I don’t think it is helpful to cry ‘nnt’ every time a child doesn’t adhere to some arbitrary notion of ‘normal’.

Our toddler used to be like this, we started putting him to bed later, which initially didn’t help snd just made him really grumpy but we stuck to it and ultimately he slept later in the morning because he was tired. He has quite low sleep needs do putting him to bed at a ‘normal’ time for his age lead to him waking up super early. These days if he has a nap he doesn’t go to be until 9/9:30pm and wakes at 6:30/7am if he doesn’t have a nap he can be asleep at 8ish. He basically never sleeps more than 11hrs in total, which I worry isn’t enough but we obviously can’t force him to sleep longer. He’s 26months. I hope things improve for you, early wake ups can be soul destroying.

Eh? My son is 3.5 and hitting all milestones with no suggestion of neurodiversity.

At almost 3 he had zero interest in audiobooks and wouldn't "obey" a gro clock. He did watch TV but would get bored quite quickly.

People insinuating he's ND because of these things have to be on the wind up.

And PP who followed up by saying their child read at 3.5, what on earth is the point of that comment?!

It's worth saying DS is recently more in to audiobooks but still isn't a fan and there's no way he'd lie there listening for hours (maybe 1-2 minutes before he'd want to come and chat).

He's also started to play way more independently in the last 6 months so that early mornings with me snoozing on the sofa and him playing with magnetic blocks and his cars is actually achievable now.

HNRTFT I have three children all now in their 20s . I can only remember having to get up at stupid o clock for my first child. I just laid on the sofa for an hour with her playing. Back upstairs and she went to sleep with a bottle until about 9 am .
The other two were in cot until at least 8am .

Absolutely this! He's 3 and old enough to do as he's told, back to bed every single time. Ds was allowed to read/ look at a book in bed but no toys and actually more often than not he nodded off again and then turned into the world's best sleeper ever. Good luck.

I'm the only one who suggested neurodivergence. Most kids get groclock from 2.5 or so.

Persevering may be necessary

My two were like this (see my username lol!). Nothing worked-gro clocks were completely ignored, wake to sleep didn’t work, sleep consultants were mentioned etc etc. Honestly, I think parents who haven’t had this every day for a long time and which haven’t been resolved by gro clock etc don’t really ‘get it’ to be honest. I mean all children are different-what works for one child might not work for others.

In the end, the only things that really helped were 1)time-when they started school at age 5 things seemed to improve. Not sure if it was because they were more tired/in routine or that school wasn’t worth waking up early for! 2) bringing them in to our bed a couple of nights a week-not ideal but they always slept a little bit later when they were in with us and 3) bedtime much later eg 8:30/9pm. I reached the conclusion that some kids just don’t need as much sleep as others.

And as for you OP, remember to look after yourself. You just need to do what it takes to get through the next bit-if that means a few ready meals, an untidy house, some bed hopping, daytime napping if possible, taking in turns to do the early wake ups and flexible bedtimes -just whatever it takes to maximise your energy levels. It will pass (although no guarantees re exactly when I’m afraid).

I have an early riser. I kept putting him back to bed until 6. Then he came into mine and watched tv while I dozed until 7am. He's 8 now and still wakes up but now he plays with his toys in his room until 7.

Just because your oldest is like this doesn't mean your other kids will be. I have one non-sleeper, subsequently diagnosed with ADHD. I tracked his sleeptime and on average he does sleep less than other kids. Sorry. I do think instinctively there's a good chance a child who doesn't sleep may turn up with an ADHD flag later, because that restless energy that makes him go "4 am, time to get up!!! Places to go and things to do!!!!!!!!" might be the same cause. Anyway. My other kids are normal sleepers albeit nightweaning #2 was hard. Second children (and onward) have the advantagethat their older siblings are automatic entertainment. So while your oldest child is alone in his room counting the seconds until he's allowed to wake up mummy to play trains with him, your second child may very well be entertained for hours by your older child in their room in the morning, with no effort on your part.

You do need to get some sleep. Any way you can. Take turns getting a hotel for the night, you and your dh spot each other for long naps during the day, nap when you visit your parents and they are looking after the kids - whatever you can do to get through it. Once you are through the newborn period with the second, it will be easier to get the older one into a routine where he self-entertains in the mornings somehow. Or at least you can take turns with your dh for naps more easily when you don't have a newborn.

I also mentioned neurodiversity, it was the screaming early in the morning and not being able to follow an audio book or understand a gro clock at nearly 3. As well as the short sleep phase.

Difficult age OP as not quite got the attention span for being plonked in front the TV. My son is 6 and will get up early but now he can go turn the TV/computer on and have a hour screen time before I get up.

I don’t think ADHD is diagnosed in this age group and at the risk of causing great offence I don’t think it’s helpful to say he is or isn’t for that matter.

Hi OP. I read your thread yesterday and was hoping to read some pearl of wisdom. My son started waking at around 5am sometimes earlier when he was 2 and a half. He turns 5 in six weeks. I've tried everything like you and nothing worked. I decided not to post yesterday as I felt that there was nothing I could add and still don't have advice. However there may be light at the end of the very sleep deprived tunnel. This morning I woke before my son! When I looked at the clock it was 6.15am. My first reaction was to check that he was breathing as I'm so used to the 5am wake ups. Perhaps they will just grow out of it one day. I will still be expecting my son to be up at 5 tomorrow as I've learnt not to expect the best but I feel better from not being woken up so early today. I've also been hoping that when he starts school in sept that he will be worn out but he is used to full time nursery so not counting on that either. Let's hope that all the early risers start sleeping later very soon x

Obviously you're grumpy because you're tired. But people really are just trying to help you!

In a post where you talk about lack of sleep people will of course give advice about sleep, even if you just wanted an answer to your question about when it will get better.

My advice - if it's really that awful, you'll need professional help with it.

Also, step back and see the bigger picture. There are many people out there - childless not by choice - who would give anything to be in your situation with two little ones. Be grateful for what you have.