To feel this down about early getups

[Itsthemornings]

So we have a nearly 3 yo and newborn. Nearly 3yo wakes at 5 or half four every single day. Thought this might have got better when he dropped his nap but it hasn’t.

Nothing seems to make any difference, and I don’t really understand it as he’s tired but can’t get him back to sleep. It’s always been tough but now with a newborn the level of sleep deprivation is horrendous.

If you had an early waker, when did it improve? I don’t want him to stay in bed until 9 or anything but 6/half 6 would be fine.

Have you tried giving a hearty supper of porridge or warm weetabix?

My 18 month would wake at 1am -3am and my 3 year old was up at 4am most mornings.

We added in a supper before bed and we find both sleep longer when they've had it. We find that if they do wake, they are more likely to self settle.

Last night, my 18month refused to eat it and he was up at 3am today for a couple of hours.

I do suspect that may be the issue @Tortoisetowers . On nursery days tea is at 330! But he just doesn’t eat much, never has. I do offer but he either refuses or has a bite and that’s it. I am actually going to try Nutella on toast I think - perhaps chocolate bribery is the way forwards!

Yeah this. We had stairgate on the door, but one of those higher dog ones so they couldn’t climb it.

I get that you’re exhausted but by giving him 1:1 attention whilst the baby sleeps you’re rewarding and encouraging it. And as for when they grow out of it? My 6YO is still an early riser, so absolutely no idea. If you’re waiting for that then expect years and years of it, especially if the new baby is similar. But mine have been trained since 2 that they plays quietly and doesn’t disturb anyone. That’s the only control I have as I can’t actually make them sleep! If treats, bribes, telling off etc don’t work then yup brute force and he’s not allowed out of his room before 6.

@Itsthemornings we clearly fundamentally disagree about parenting if you think enforcing rules is either cruel or insane. Plenty of us have said this is merely a matter of enforcement (though there may be different view about how this is achieved), but you seem seem fiercely opposed to any type of rules. If that's your approach, then you're in for many, many more problems so early starts will be the least of your issues

But when you don’t give him 1:1 attention, he still wakes at 5.

When you do give him 1:1 attention, he wakes at 5.

If I locked him in his room, he’d still wake at 5 and cry until someone released him.

If I put him in an outbuilding, he would wake at 5.

I don’t want bad feeling creeping back here, but is there something I’m writing that people are not really understanding?

He’s crying for attention. So that won’t stop until you ignore him. He’s 3. If his basic needs have been met then you can treat it like it’s 1am. You can be firm and say - go back to sleep from time to time. Keep putting him back in his bed. Keep the lights off. Don’t talk much. Make it boring.

Now if you don’t want to do that then fine. But it won’t get better for years so think of a strategy to cope with that. My friends strategy was to get up with her kid and watch TV at 4.30am for years. That’s not good for anyone!

@Itsthemornings why not go back to the sleep consultant if you want it resolved ASAP? Which I assume you do? Worth a try?

@sexnotgenders it depends what the rules are and perhaps most crucially how they are enforced, doesn’t it?

If you had an elderly relative living with you who was not continent and who was dependent on you for everything people would be horrified at locking them in their room and refusing to go to them until a certain time, ignoring their cries of distress. I don’t see this as particularly different. Things like Gro clocks to encourage children to stay in bed/in their rooms longer are great if they work, but a quick glance on this thread should show they aren’t a magic bullet for everyone.

I came late to this parenting game and most of my friends have primary aged kids. I remember a lot of them being absolute swines as toddlers and they are all lovely kids now. There’s only one who was a dream as a toddler and is still a lovely boy now. I think he’s going to grow to be some sort of saint or similar, he is just the nicest kid

In any case with a brand new baby in the house, it probably isn’t the best time to be locking two year olds in their rooms. Even if I thought this was a good idea

Because we have followed her recommendations and they haven’t worked. There is definitely a comprehension issue here.

Nothing worked for us either. My 3yo is finally slowly outgrowing and we're getting to 6.30 as an average wake. I remember my eldest did the same and slept til 7 once she started school.

What people are trying to say OP, is that you have to accept the tears and push through regardless. As I said in my original response this morning, there will be tears, but it's just a toddler tantrum in defiance of a rule. You need to be the parent and be consistent about his behaviour and what is expected of him - the groclock gives a structure to this that he will understand. The fact he doesn't like it isn't surprising (who wouldn't want mummy attention at 4am). But it's up to you to be firm and not give it to him. That is neither cruel nor insane. It's fundamental to the overall family's well being. It isn't just about your toddler. But you are allowing him to rule the house.

7 is an early bedtime its a natural 10 hour stint of sleep.

Glad you came out the other side @YukoandHiro

Not saying its easy to shift I had an early riser like this he grew out of it before school so cant have gone on too much past 3

Try toast tonight and see how it goes. Give the nutella a miss though as he'll have a sugar high! 😉

It's a simple thing to try and I'm with you- I can't/won't enforce waking 'rules' with my year old, because he's a 3 years old.

You do what's right for you and you are 100% allowed to be unhappy about lack of sleep whilst not taking everyone's advice. Choose the bits that are right for you! I've just come out of 6months of hellish sleep and it has got better!

Well it is @waterrat but that’s because he’s up at 5. If bedtime is at 8, he’s still up at 5, so that’s where we’re at.

I got a fair bit of stick for supposed rudeness but honestly how many times are posters supposed to type the same message, over and over?

He’s funny with toast - doesn’t eat it or bread really. Peanut butter sandwich could work: he likes peanut butter.

If you don’t want to force him to stay in his room then fine! But equally you can’t dismiss it as not working until you’ve tried it for 2 weeks. I think it took 4 days ish for us to see an improvement and maybe 10 days to get to an acceptable wake up time. I don’t think it has any comparison with an incontinent elderly relative at all (??)- good quality sleep and being well rested is essential for the well being of all the household including him.

DH needs to get up with DS every day if you're doing night feeds, and get him downstairs asap to minimise you waking. Wear earplugs if you need to or invest in some sound muffling stuff for your bedroom door. Hopefully you'll be able too drop off again if DH is on it.

@TropicalTrama we have. It isn’t a new problem and I’m so tired of repeating this.

Or a banana is a great bedtime snack as they have something in which promotea sleep. I've only just remembered about that working wonders with my firstborn, so I'll try it tonight with the younger one who has gone off weetabix 🤣

He is @babbscrabbs . But ds1 still wakes me up. I can’t really have earplugs on with a newborn waking to be fed in the night and besides, an elbow in your face is a pretty effective alarm clock.

OP, I think you’re missing the point that it’s quite frustrating to be responding to someone who is clearly struggling but shoots down every suggestion with “that doesn’t work” and “you have a comprehension problem.”

You seem to be very irritated that I initially was surprised that a 3 year old didn’t like CBeebies. I wasn’t trying to annoy you. Genuinely don’t meet many children who don’t like it.

If people offer well meaning advice that has tried and failed, try not to shoot them down. I get you’re feeling bad but it’s coming across as quite rude and angry.

I remember reading that about bananas. Unfortunately we’re on a banana strike here for some unknown reason!

There are many people out there - childless not by choice - who would give anything to be in your situation with two little ones. Be grateful for what you have

🤦🏼‍♀️