To feel this down about early getups

[Itsthemornings]

So we have a nearly 3 yo and newborn. Nearly 3yo wakes at 5 or half four every single day. Thought this might have got better when he dropped his nap but it hasn’t.

Nothing seems to make any difference, and I don’t really understand it as he’s tired but can’t get him back to sleep. It’s always been tough but now with a newborn the level of sleep deprivation is horrendous.

If you had an early waker, when did it improve? I don’t want him to stay in bed until 9 or anything but 6/half 6 would be fine.

You say your newborn is very new. Reading that reminded me that DS went through a shocking early waking phase when Dd was less than 2 months old. Her birthday is October and I remember cutting out paper pumpkins at 6:30. Looking back I think it was when he could get guaranteed 121 time with me. I always did the early starts as DH stayed up to midnight to her Dd her dream feed.

I was lucky that:
a) I am a bit of a lark anyway
and
b) I honestly think Dd only ever had one night feed after her 11pm bottle around 3-4am.

I did go to bed at 8:30 or 9 so had 6 or 7 hours before Dd woke.

I also had an afternoon nap on DS nursery days until she was 10 weeks ish.

💐

You don’t have to reply again and again to the same points made by different people. Not everyone will rtft.

@Userhay i thought you gave up last night. Neither of us are helping the other. I wasn’t very irritated but having to repeat myself three times, as if you thought I was lying or misunderstood, was exasperating and quite exhausting. Your advice may be well meaning but it’s not very practical or helpful.

The big change in DS1 was when he actually started interacting with his peers rather than just playing alongside. There was a big change at around 3 and a half. Physical exertion doesn't seem to do much for his sleep, but the mental exertion definitely does. Moving from nursery to preschool really knocked him out.

@Userhay i am choosing to. Like you are choosing to reply.

Only about 9 months to go then! And then the other will probably start 😀

Ah sorry - you were comparing the locking him in his room to elder abuse so I had assumed from that you were horrified by the idea so would never actually try it, certainly not with any consistency. If you’ve done something you personally view as that abhorrent you must really have tried everything. I’m not sure you what you want from this thread really… If genuinely nothing works then that’s that isn’t it. But they grow up and things change so just because brute force or bribery doesn’t work now does that doesn’t mean that it won’t in the future. 2 is quite little for bribes but most 3 year olds really get it! So good luck to you and don’t be afraid to revisit things that may not have worked for you previously.

I’ve never locked him in @TropicalTrama

What was initially recommended was go in, firmly say it’s night time, lie down. Then keep going back in every two minutes then five.

So duly tried it. DS (then aged 19 months) was standing in his cot smiling and holding his arms out saying ‘mama.’ He sobbed when I said it’s night time lie down. I went out and he wailed and cried and cried. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. A week later yes, we did knock that on the head.

Second recommendation was to get him up but to sit in a dark room with him. Didn’t work. He was up and raring to go.

And then the adjusting bedtimes and naps and all the tweaks things. Nothings made a difference.

And it is abusive to lock someone helpless somewhere and ignore their cries. Why, do you think it’s not?

Sorry I don't really understand what you're posting for then.

If those are (truly) the only options, then you'll have to pick one and deal with it

If you're just looking for sympathy - you have it. It sucks, but it will get better at some point, probably once at school

Let’s turn that on its head. What are you posting for, then?

Ok, I really am out. I’m an NHS professional with 25 years experience working with parents. I was posting here as a mum. I’m sure you’re much less rude in real life but you’re sounding like an (overtired) bully here.

There are lots of things you can try (or try again). But this is clearly not what you’re here for.

A 3 year old is not crying because they are helpless. They want your attention. They are safe, warm, - you can check if they’re not hungry and thirsty or need the toilet. And if all those needs have been met then the crying is for your attention.

If you can’t bear to hear your toddler crying for a bit then that’s ok. But the body clock will not shift if you keep getting up at that time. So you need to make peace with that and work around it.

I don’t think it’s healthy for anybody - child or adult to get up at that time and it’s hugely disruptive so would deal with a bit of crying to sort it out.

If you tried it at 19 months and he’s now nearly 3 then that’s so long ago I wouldn’t class that as having tried it at all. He has better speech and understanding now, his naps are different, I’m guessing he’s no longer in the cot, he now has a sibling etc.

Personally so long as I know all their needs are met and they’re safe then I ignore attention seeking tantrums, that goes for all tantrums not just morning ones. So I would go in once to check they’re ok, tell them it’s still sleep time, then leave and not go back in until 6am. They weren’t locked in but there was a tall stairgate on the door so not much difference. I used to watch them on the video monitor too. I know it’s method that isn’t for everyone, a bit like cry based sleep training but it’s a big big stretch to say it’s abusive. And it’s something clearly you haven’t tried since you only did going in at regular intervals or sitting in a dark room with him when he was 1. If you don’t want to that’s fine of course! If you just want a rant because it’s shit and you’re you too knackered with a newborn to try anything new then that’s also fine! Good luck to you, however long it takes it won’t last forever and you really are in the worst of it right now x

@Delatron we have been through this <groan>

@Userhay I am sorry if this has upset you, I genuinely am. But I have also found your posts extremely upsetting. You keep insisting there is all this stuff I could try and haven’t. That isn’t true, and it’s very frustrating because to be very blunt, someone making things up is annoying at the best of times, and when you’re sleep deprived anyway it is very annoying.

I went through your posts last night. You recommended audiobooks for him to listen to, a train set for DS to play with in his bedroom, going for a walk, or CBeebies. I’ve explained these aren’t solutions but for some reason you keep coming back and saying ‘but I have suggested things and you just won’t try them.’

I am not trying to upset you. But I am finding your posts baffling.

Um, no. My son rarely made to 6am. He's 20 now, and even on his days off is up and about by 8am. On a work day he's up at 6 and off to the gym before work. High energy.
My daughter (18) on the other hand will happily sleep til noon, and didn't like mornings much as a baby either.

If it provides a glimmer of hope DS1 is now a fantastic sleeper - goes down happily at 7pm and doesn't come out of his room until 7.20 (which is admittedly the result of the gro clock, but his natural wake up time has shifted so that 6.30 is unusually early, whereas at 3 5.30 was a lie in for us).

@TropicalTrama i don’t think this is getting either of us anywhere. Let’s just say given the nine month warning of a baby’s appearance we’ve been trying to solve it. I’m not alone in this, posts on this thread confirm it. It’s really turning into a horrible thread that’s helping absolutely no one. I really don’t know why some are so adamant that not every suggestion will work for every child!

I’ve read most of the thread. I think you don’t want to leave him to cry or be firm with him.

You sound absolutely knackered and with a newborn I’d be wanting to get this sorted.

He wakes early, if I ignored him all that happens is he’d cry until someone got him up. It wouldn’t teach him ‘oh, I’d best sleep until 7, then.’ It wouldn’t teach him to be quiet either. It will come with time and added comprehension.

And did someone wait until 7 to get him up?

I’ve read most of the thread. I think you don’t want to leave him to cry or be firm with him.
That’s the impression I’m getting too. Just own it OP and say you just want a bloody good rant! No need to be rude to everyone or insist you’ve tried ‘everything’.

One of my DC still wakes before 6am (5-6am) at age 8. We’ve just had to accept that this is his natural wake up time. We have a rule that he has to stay in bed till 6am and that he has to stay in his room (reading or playing with his toys quietly) until 7am. No going downstairs/ tv before 7am. He can come and give us a quick cuddle when he goes to the loo, as once he’s up we wake up too anyway. We used a gro clock when he was younger, before he could tell the time.

At age 3 he would wake up and come into bed with us for a cuddle and then one of us would go downstairs with him when it got to a reasonable time; they need comfort and attention at that age. If you’ve tried everything then it’s probably your son’s natural wake up time too, and it’s a case of having to learn to cope with it.

We found porridge before bed was good for filling him up, sometimes rice pudding. Not very healthy though but when he started school he started eating way more.

@Itsthemornings I understand the pain of repeating yourself - being honest I was not going to read multiple pages ha. sorry.

It's absolute torture having to wake up that early - my eldest (who is 11 now and I have to wake up in the morning!!) so yes there is hope. - was just like this it was 4.30/ 5 and I absolutely could not cope.

this is what worked for me - not saying you have to do this! I tried really hard not to go 'immediately' - just to try and encourage a bit of settling in the cot etc - I encouraged keeping him in the room/ dark until 6ish (didn't always work.but worked on it)

and I know its hard when they are exhausted but it's like jet lag - if you permanently switched his bedtime to an hour or two later he absolutely would wake up later - it's just hard to do - but summer is a good time to do it as it's light in the evening - if you want to chaneg, I would really really ffocus on pushing bedtime back a little a night - you will see a difference over weeks rather than days.

@Delatron we parent differently, I’m not really comfortable with ignoring crying for two hours.

@waterrat i get it’s a long thread but I have answered this.

I have ‘owned it’ @TropicalTrama ! I said on page one I wasn’t seeking advice but then I got a load of sucked lemon ‘why post then’ whiners!