To feel this down about early getups

[Itsthemornings]

So we have a nearly 3 yo and newborn. Nearly 3yo wakes at 5 or half four every single day. Thought this might have got better when he dropped his nap but it hasn’t.

Nothing seems to make any difference, and I don’t really understand it as he’s tired but can’t get him back to sleep. It’s always been tough but now with a newborn the level of sleep deprivation is horrendous.

If you had an early waker, when did it improve? I don’t want him to stay in bed until 9 or anything but 6/half 6 would be fine.

OP, my son was similar. Probably two years of waking around 4:30-5am. He's 4 now and has been sleeping until 5:45-6am for about a year. He's old enough he can go downstairs and put the TV on himself and then one of us will go down and make him toast. I'll then go back to sleep on the sofa

So 6am is about his norm, which is vastly preferable to half 4. It will get better with your oldest, I'm sure!

Thanks @StaySpicy

That’s fine - for what it’s worth they don’t cry for hours. It takes a few days and then everyone gets more sleep. So long term it’s a healthier solution. But yes it takes a bit of tough parenting and I know not everyone is comfortable listening to their toddlers crying.

This.
I posted what I thought was helpful advice and have been ignored in favour of being rude to others.
You can't just say "I tried something similar once many months ago and it didn't work so I won't bother any more and will just moan moan moan and be rude to people suggesting anything similar."
If you really want to sort the problem then do it.
I was 8 weeks pregnant with HG when this started up for me but I made an effort and sorted it even though it took weeks and DS and I ended up in tears every morning (and me battered and bruised from him kicking and kitting me, and puke on the floor from me). It was tough, really tough, but that is parenting. No one said it would be easy.

I can’t quite remember when DS (now 16) started to sleep later. However late he went to bed he STILL woke at the same time, so putting him to bed later just made him incredibly grumpy the following day, so this advise doesn’t work for all DC.

My memory is now really hazy regarding when DS started to sleep later. It must have happened gradually, with little ‘wow it’s 6am and he’s still sleeping’ moments, those moments felt like Christmas morning! Then gradually those moments increased and it was 7am etc.

One thing that I would try and insist on, if nothing else works, is working on how noisy your DS is in the morning, so that at least one of you can try and rest. We have a small house with thin walls, so if DS was up really early we had to be quite firm and keep noise to a minimum. Quiet voice, calm environment, boring even, repeat if he was noisy. What does your DH do to try and keep the noise levels down at that time in the morning? I know you don’t want advise but this could be something that helps so that at least one of you gets a lie in.

@Delatron yes he does .

@Oldermum84 your helpful advice was the Gro clock and I must have said fifty times now we’ve tried it and it didn’t work. I’m sorry that’s offended you but there are others on this thread who confirmed the Gro clock was similarly ineffective. It isn’t a magic bullet.

My advice wasn't just "try a gro clock" though was it. I wrote a lot more than that but obviously you saw the words "gro clock" and chose to ignore. When was the last time you attempted the clock? What bribery did you use? My son wouldn't have understood it until 3.

But you said you haven’t left him to cry for hours? Someone always goes to him. So you don’t know whether he would cry until 7am or if after half an he go back to sleep and that would reset his body clock.

But if you have left him until 7am then I apologise. If you haven’t you don’t know whether he would stop or not.

Put a bolt on the outside of the door, lock it and tolerate some crying for a day or two.

It would be a last resort for me, but with a newborn, I'd be at the end of my tether by now.

If you won't stomach any crying, OP, the situation might go on for a long time - you are OK with that?

I think if you can’t solve the early waking, then the best you can do is minimise any disturbance to the parent who’s doing the newborn night wakings. That means your DH is on early morning toddler duty for the foreseeable. And you’ll have to accept that whilst you might get woken by the noise, you can at least stay in bed and try to rest, if if it’s not unbroken sleep.

The hard line I’d enforce in my household would be the toddler can’t disturb the parent who is not ‘on duty’ so absolutely no ‘going in to see Mummy/Daddy’ if their bedroom door is closed.

(Fwiw, my DC1 & DC2 age gap was smaller but DC1 was a similar early morning hell beast. My DH did basically bugger all with DC1 for nights and early mornings until DC2 came along and then he had to suck it up and put his big boy pants on and make sure if he was up with DC1 I wasn’t disturbed with the baby. It wasn’t much fun and he hated it - and I tried hard not to hate him! - but eventually despite tantrums (DH’s and DC1’s) they figured it out. My line in the sand was that I was doing the nights and days on maternity leave so he 100% had to do the 5am wake-ups. We survived.)

And it's been said fifty times in return that you haven't actually tried the groclock, because you haven't enforced it. It works if you enforce it, like any rule. You clearly haven't read my original post where I made clear that leaving a 3 year old to cry isn't the same as leaving a younger child, so if you tried it at 19 months, then try again now he's older. It will work, but yes, there will be some tears. If you want to parent without tears, then I have no idea how you are enforcing any rules in your house. Toddlers cry when they don't get their own way. It isn't anything like 'elder abuse'. It's part of being a good parent - toddlers need boundaries and need rules. You are choosing to let a 3 year old run your life, and it isn't healthy, and it's not doing him or the rest of the family any favours. There's a solution to all this, which others have also kindly tried to point out, but you are deaf to it

@CopperSeahorses
My early riser asked for an alarm clock for his Christmas present. One that actually made a noise. And, surprisingly, it did help him stay in bed longer. I mean, it was set for 6am.......
He must have been about 3.5y at the time.
I'm sure "noises" as signals for things have already been used extensively in your house, but wonder if an alarm clock would help your child? It blows any chance of a lie in tho!

@Userhay ‘It reads as though you don’t want anyone to offer help’

well, yes, OP specifically said ‘Anyway to be honest I didn’t post for advice - just want to know if the end will be in sight any time in the next decade.’

OP, unless I’ve missed it you haven’t responded to my advice (and a couple of other posters) about the rousing method as it may be one you haven’t heard of and it is scientific not just anecdotal. It is perfect if you are waking at 2am ish for the baby as you can gently rouse your 3 year old at that time which puts them into a new sleep cycle and therefore will sleep past the usual wake time. This needs to be done for several days for it to work. You could even take them to the toilet at this time as needing a wee could be waking them early.

I think the key, in general terms, is that he'll be waking at that time because it's rewarding / worth it in some way. I think early on you said he's still tired. You could try looking really objectively at what happens when he wakes and what is happening to incentives the waking (ie attention, food, TV, toys - I'm not saying those are applicable to you, but they're obvious ones). Then you need to remove those as much as possible.

Secondly, does he like being in his cot / bed / room? If he doesn't then he'll cry for you when he wakes. building up his confidence being alone for a bit in his bed or room generally will make him more likely to respond positively to a sign than it's time to get up (Groclock, or you coming to get him, etc). Spend time playing, reading etc in his bedroom space and leave him for extended periods (assuming he's not happy already).

Oh but also meant to say you have a newborn and I get that this is survival mode time, NOT a time to be sleep teaching.

Have you got anyone who can help out for a few days a month so you / DH can get some sleep?