To feel this down about early getups

[Itsthemornings]

So we have a nearly 3 yo and newborn. Nearly 3yo wakes at 5 or half four every single day. Thought this might have got better when he dropped his nap but it hasn’t.

Nothing seems to make any difference, and I don’t really understand it as he’s tired but can’t get him back to sleep. It’s always been tough but now with a newborn the level of sleep deprivation is horrendous.

If you had an early waker, when did it improve? I don’t want him to stay in bed until 9 or anything but 6/half 6 would be fine.

The gro clock worked for us, but only with added bribery! He got a small toy dinosaur every time he stayed in bed all night until yellow sun (I bought the gro clock where it's a blue star at night and yellow sun in the morning so it was super obvious to him when he could get up). I bought about 40 dinosaurs for £5 from Amazon. He loved them. The first week I literally took him back to bed 30 times some nights / mornings. I was really strict. It was exhausting but worth it. I just took him back to bed (or carried him kicking and screaming) until he was too tired to get up again. We moved the time of the clock later by a few minutes every few days, so his biological clock slowly adjusted. We're now at 6:25 which I'm happy with.

Yes but check there isn't the tiniest crack of light coming through anywhere around the curtains/ blinds etc.
It will get better. It doesn't help having a newborn with the added sleep problem. Perhaps when he starts school he'll get into a better sleep pattern as will ge tired from school. I know that seems a long way off right now. Do he go to nursery?

What has happened the last time the clocks went back? I understand it's been ongoing for 18 months so surely you have been through this before?

Have you tried melatonin to see if it can help reset to extend his sleep? Tbh though my eldest didn’t sleep until full time at school wore her out mentally & physically. She’s now a teenager, trains 15hr+ a week and competes in a sport at national level. Some kids just have more energy & that’s the way they are wired. It got better when I just had to except she was like that and as she got older we encouraged ways to self amuse herself until 6.30am in her room. But we did get success with a gro clock at age 4-5yrs as it didn’t work when younger.

I would be amazed if there wasn't some change ( probably not as much as you would like) if you did the following every day for 14 days:
Kept everything dark and no screens before 6am, spoke in a low voice and stayed in his room with him. Quietly looking at books or listening to gentle music.
At 6am opened the windows, turned on the lights and brought him downstairs for breakfast. Only after that and he is dressed and teeth brushed do toys or screens come out.
No sleep before 12pm ( wake within a minute) if he sleeps, lots of running around /swimming.
If needed v. brief sleep at 12pm awake before 1.
Definitely fresh air, daylight and exercise between 2 and 4pm.
Bed between 7-7:30 if no nap or 7:30-8 if a nap.

If you seriously stick to that for 2 weeks and he is still waking at 4:30 maybe see a doctor about neurodiversity.

My early waker improved hugely at about 3 and a half as he started Pre school and it just tired him out physically and mentally. On non Pre school days I’d take him swimming in the afternoon which seemed to help and he always needed a really decent long time of running, climbing, exploring every day.
He’s 13 now and obviously doesn’t rise at 5, but in the holidays if he mooches around for the day he can’t sleep, he just needs a LOT of external tiring stimulation in a day.

My son did this, regularly started his day at 4am, along with spending hours at night awake. It was torture, he's an only child(!). We got through it with too much cake, tacking it turns to get up in the morning and going to bed stupidly early a number of nights a week.

He's 7 now and sleeps until about 5.30am and stays in bed until 6am (thanks to the clock that shall not be mentioned). I think it's just him, if he sleeps past 6am, I start to worry he's unwell!

Maybe he'll be a teenager who won't get out of bed, but I can also imagine him waking at 5.30am for the rest of his life!

Hopefully it is a phase, a long one, and it will get better.

I can’t even remember! The last year is just a blur of early wakes!

@Goldencup be amazed. Be very amazed.

We've been through this. From about 3 until 3 and a half.

Supper for the toddler (weetabix!)
Blackout blinds

Saved our sanity!

I’m right there with you, 5 year old and 1 year old. 4:45-5am like clockwork.

I go to bed at 8pm and have no social life in the evenings. But to be honest, it doesn’t bother me that much. I’ve weirdly started looking forward to being awake before the world wakes up. Once they are fed and playing, that first coffee while I potter about is lovely. And we’re always the first ones at the playground at 7am. And most cafes here open at 10am on the weekend, and we are the first ones there for lunch. Haha

I teach middle school, and I see how quickly it goes by. My students don’t wake up until midday on the weekend.

@beachsandseaicecream I do wonder wtf I was thinking to TTC … I think I thought it was a phase, I was wrong!

That's pretty much what I describing. DS needed to go to the park after school/ nursery or I got 5:30 wake ups.

I had to go back to full-time work when DS was 6 weeks old.
He went to bed when it suited me - usually about 22.00.
I had time with him after I got back from work, & he slept until 06.00 ish
My DM was horrified - apparently babies are meant to go to bed at 19.00 & wake @ 04.00 !! Not the only load of bollocks she spouted.

I look forward to it. In all seriousness if you keep a sleep diary with all the activities etc. I can put you in touch with sleep services locally to you. Who might prescribe melatonin if everything else is in place and he is sleeping less than 8 or 9 hours over 24.

My son was (and is) a terrible sleeper. It got easier once he could 'read' stories to himself or play quietly with small toys in bed. He is 31 this year and still finds sleeping difficult. You have my absolute sympathy Op. I was single parent when he was 3 and his brother was 2. The lack of sleep just about killed me.

My son has always been an early riser, anytime between 4.30am and 5.30am was his wake up time, fully awake ready for the day. It was very tiring, I'm not a morning person, but I like you tried everything and nothing worked, I just had to accept he's an early riser. He's 9 now and is still up before anyone else, although slightly later most mornings, closer to 6am, but he no longer wakes everyone up, he was probably about 6 or 7 when he started to get himself a drink and play or watch/play games on his tablet when he woke up and not disturb the whole house.

Our 7 year old daughter has always woken between 5-6am without fail, every sodding morning since practically being born. The only consolation is that she’s always gone down pretty easily and slept through. It’s slowly killing me and my husband. My problem is that I always wake at around 3am and can’t get back to sleep. Otherwise I’d be able to cope. We’ve tried everything over the years but have accepted it’s just how she is. She gets plenty of exercise- trains in a gymnastics squad, etc but nothing seems to tire her out. She could go to bed at midnight but she’d still be up early (she doesn’t go to bed at that time - it’s normally 7.30 but we have tried varying the times to experiment over the years). Anyway, we’re luckily at a point now where we can trust her just to stay in her room and get on with quiet activities - well, most of the time 🙄anyway.

My DC2 needs way less sleep than my DC1. They have a 4 year age gap but both go to sleep around 9pm (now age 9 and just turned 5). DC2 usually sleeps about 9hrs on a good night. Often wakes once or twice a night and will sometimes be up for a couple of hours e.g. 2am till 4am. DC1 sleeps about 10hrs on a school day and 11hrs in the holidays.

Some kids just need less sleep. The only thing that helps is a LOT of outdoors exercise. On the days DC has done a sports holiday camp (6 hours of sport outside) they have slept far better than a quieter less active day at home or just a short trip to the park.

I dont know when it will end. I would hope at some point soon they will be old enough to play quietly in their own room rather than wake you.

I used a gro clock (realise you dont want any help with that though so wont elaborate) Good luck.

@Itsthemornings have you tried reseting the morning sleep cycle? Mine used to wake at a god awful time and once they're awake, they were buzzing for the day, no matter how early. We tried everything going, they are autistic with limited understanding. But what did work was to gently rouse them about 20/30 mins before normal wake time. Not enough to fully wake them but enough to disturb them from their deep sleep and for them to enter a new sleep cycle. It took about 3 -5 days but we managed to move their morning wake time by about a hour.

Now they are 5 they have push lights, easy read and picture books, toys, plus their tablet. They know not to leave their bed until 7am and are quite happy to entertain themselves on a morning.

OP - I have huge sympathy as my DS was the same and I also got fed up of well meaning people offering up advice for things we'd already tried that didn't work

We also failed miserably with a gro clock (DS worked out very quickly how to alter it and happily started getting up even earlier) however at 5 we were able to convince him to stay in bed until 7 (we just got a normal digital clock and told him the first number had to be a 7) and that he could play or read quietly if he woke up earlier.

I am very sorry to say that he didn't stop waking at 5 until hormones hit in at age 12. But I hope for your sake your DS is a better sleeper!

Not usually, no. So it sounds like you need to fix the problem of him screaming or start going to bed earlier so the early wake ups isn’t a problem.

Now I just don’t know what you want. You said you wanted to know when it stops. I answered, and now you’re snarky with my answer.

Ok, right back atcha. It will stop when or if it stops. It may be tomorrow or never. You clearly have no control over it so learn to love the sunrise 🌄

Sympathies OP, I've had 2 out of my 3 like yours. One of them stopped waking so early when he started reception. The other one (I hate to tell you) never stopped. Even as a teen/adult he's never really been a late riser. It was nice when he got old enough not to wake everyone else up though.

i was going to suggest this, it is a technique a lot of people are not aware of - you can actually do the waking earlier on in the night such as when you go to bed or maybe 2/3am if you are prepared to get up to do it. You gently rouse them, not fully wake them up and this should reset the sleep cycle. I believe it need to be done for at least 3 days before it starts to work.

A sleep consultant told me that it was just coincidental; and black out blinds, changing naps, adjusting bedtime etc is unlikely to affect it, really - its natural for little kids to wake up earlier; sometimes horrifically earlier, and there's not a lot you can do about that. Gro clocks and bribes can work to encourage them to stay in bed, or in their room; but won't stop them from being awake...

Sure, but does it matter if he wakes up early, as long as he doesn't wake the OP?

Three is a bit young, but by 5yo, unless there is a back story about special needs, he should be able to keep himself entertained without waking his parents and perhaps sort his own breakfast out as long as the cereal etc. are put out on the table the night before. My 4.5yo can basically manage this kind of thing these days.