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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

So many child haters here

457 replies

Sabrinasummersamples · 10/08/2023 17:59

So many threads on here seem to attract the same sort of answer along the lines of
-In my day we'd have got a smack. Never did me any harm. Give em a clip round the ear.
-kids today are entitled shrieky brats
-kids should stand for adults
-kids shouldn't be allowed in restaurants

Yet often those same posters are the first to call "agism" when people disagree.
Why do so many people hold such contempt for kids?
I mean I know kids can be annoying but honestly you could say that about any group of people. Plus we were all kids once 🤷

OP posts:
BigGreen · 13/08/2023 01:46

Yes, I noticed this too. But then I'm also a cyclist as well as a parent, MN other favourite group 😂.

Oatycookies · 13/08/2023 01:48

Sabrinasummersamples · 12/08/2023 17:22

I bloody hope they don't have kids! I'm going to guess the answer is no though since they have absolutely no clue what they're talking about.
Why would someone have to be cute to be likeable? Honestly we're talking humans, not bunnies.

It turns out they did have kids lol I could’ve guessed as much but it’s funny people are so quick to assume someone who they feel speaks out of turn about children is childfree

Oatycookies · 13/08/2023 01:51

I stand corrected on the above, their posts were hard to decipher. They don’t have kids after all… but they’re planning to so one day there’ll be a mum running around with her views and she won’t be the only parent with these views 😆

echt · 13/08/2023 03:37

Not RTwholeFT but for several weeks now, MNHQ have posted promoted threads on "surviving" the school holidays and making sure you get "me" time, signs, if any were needed that children, even your own, are not an unalloyed joy.

While I'm sure there are people in RL and on MN who hate children, what I've seen here are only the usual ones where people who like their own but are indifferent to others' children or disliking the untrammelled behaviour of many children, so actively avoid them.

That's not hate, so the OP needs to take it off the boil and think a little harder about what people are saying. The examples @Sabrinasummersamples gives are not hateful, indeed the one about restaurants I've never seen.

CleverLilViper · 13/08/2023 04:20

Sabrinasummersamples · 12/08/2023 17:29

Why the hell are you having a baby if you don't like any kids over the age of 4 or 5? Jesus. Poor kid.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

I don’t think she’s actually that wrong with what she is saying. It may be blunt but it’s delusional to think that everyone finds your 8 year old cute in the same way that they find an 8 month old cute.

People are going to be more tolerant of babies due to their innate cuteness. That fades as they get older. Not to their parents and loved ones. But to the rest of society? Yes.

That doesn’t mean they don’t have value or their value is tied up in how cute they are perceived to be. It simply reflects why people are more tolerant of the screaming baby as opposed to the screaming six year old. Even if developmentally the behaviour is appropriate.

How many threads are there on MN from women who have their noses pushed out of joint because their slightly older kids are receiving less attention from extended family members now that a new baby is born? I’ve seen a few and I think this plays into that.

Everyone fawns over babies. That’s why some mothers keep having them because they grow attached to that baby phase and want to keep experiencing it over and over.

I don’t think the poster is suggesting that parents fall out love with their kids once they reach 5. More that the rest of society starts to and that means they lose some degree of tolerance.

What was once “oh how cute! How darling! Oh the cheeky monkey!” Suddenly becomes a tut, sigh, shake of the head and passive aggressive muttering.

CleverLilViper · 13/08/2023 05:05

I don't hate children at all and I don't think the threads that have been referenced here represent any "child-haters" either. The trouble is, any time anyone is remotely critical of the behaviour of some children-they're immediately labelled as child-haters, even if they, themselves, have children.

And I don't know where or why the child-free among us are being blamed for the alleged increase in "hate" when those threads are sometimes started by parents and largely populated by parents. Seems this is yet another attempt to paint the child-free, especially women, as evil, child-hating witches and they ask why we want our own board and get mad at the goady parents posting in it.

{not all parents who post in the child-free board are goady-some are lovely and very welcome}

It's not the children that people dislike. Often times, the ire and annoyance is misdirected at the children when it really belongs with the parents. I think there's a balance to be struck. There is behaviour that is absolutely normal, age-appropriate behaviour and it's not normal or good to try and clamp down on that behaviour entirely.

However, there's also a time and a place for said behaviour and the needs and wants of your child don't trump the needs and wants of other people. I remember once-going to see the final Harry Potter film and I was so looking forward to it. I booked the first screening of the day which was before 10AM.

The cinema was largely empty bar me, and a woman with her little boy. Probably around four or five. Throughout the film, from start to finish, the boy showed no interest in the film whatsoever and proceeded to run up and down the stairs as loudly as possible, jumping on each step as he went. He ran down his row of seats-and at the time-they were those pull down seats that clang and kept doing that. He climbed up the backs of the seats and over.

He talked and laughed throughout. The mother did nothing to get him under control. And when I say nothing-I mean nothing. She didn't take him out to calm him down, didn't tell him off-nothing. Just sat there, as if they were at home and there was no one else there.

At the end, she looked at me and went, "sorry," in a tone that conveyed that she wasn't really sorry at all. He clearly couldn't have cared less about the film-but she took him anyway and even when he showed he didn't care-did nothing to stop him ruining it for others-or simply removing him.

It's this kind of behaviour-"My child is more important than you," accompanied with a total lack of self-awareness and consideration for others-that gets people's backs up. And even choosing late showings of films doesn't guarantee you that no children will be there to ruin it. Had that more than once-with the parents joining in on the behaviour as well. Shock.

I'm happy to be tolerant of bad behaviour when I can see a parent struggling or that is trying to deal with it-but it's the oblivious, "continue doing what you're doing and pretend the kid does not exist," parents that get my goat. Those same parents will scream bloody murder if their kid gets injured when running around in a restaurant and blame everyone else but themselves.

Let's also not kid ourselves that some parents don't raise hell if their kids get disciplined at school. We've all seen them. The indignation that anyone would dare suggest that their little child is less than an angel sent from heaven and the chimes of "I'm going to raise merry hell at the school tomorrow," and they do. And they'll scratch their heads in confusion when their consequence-free parenting style leads their children to grow into entitled, spoiled adults who don't know how to deal with the real world. Or get shown consequences by the law.

I don't think parenting is worse these days than it has ever been, really, though. I do think some parents seem to be more permissive, allowing their kid to do what they want to do regardless of the impact on others. I think their little experiment will blow up in their faces once they realise they haven't raised likeable people, though.

Octosaurus · 13/08/2023 05:32

Toprepandhowmuch · 10/08/2023 18:04

“Hate” is a bit of an exaggeration. Also, I think the dissatisfaction is aimed at parents who do not control their DC or teach them manners, rather than the DC themselves.

Seconded

ChristmasCrumpet · 13/08/2023 06:50

fullbloom87 · 13/08/2023 01:21

@ChristmasCrumpet

Yes I do to be quite honest.
I've worked in nurseries and to be Frank a lot of the parents were rubbish. More interested in their friends and career then how their baby was fairing stuck in a crèche all day.
Cognitive dissonance is what it is.
You can't say a mother who drops her 4 month old baby to a big overcrowded crèche everyday because she'd rather go and work at the insurance company, loves her baby more than the mother who spends 24/7 with their baby and focuses 100% on being that baby's carer.
And you can't say the baby in the nursery will be happier either because I have first hand experience to tell you that baby is not as okay as you're led to believe.
I'm supportive of mothers going back to work early to make ends meet, but not for selfish reasons like not being arsed to sacrifice a couple of years for their baby.

Oh dear.

You didn't even get it wasn't a question to answer.

You actually do think your child is loved more. Smh.

Moglet4 · 13/08/2023 07:07

This made me laugh! I know sooo many people just like this!

5128gap · 13/08/2023 07:40

fullbloom87 · 13/08/2023 01:14

@5128gap

I've been a mother for 18 years. I go travelling with my daughters and without them , I have many many years of happy memories not just in the baby years.
I've always worked around them so have never missed out on anything. When I became a mum I did it to enjoy the full experience from baby to adulthood and that's exactly what I've done.
My eldest daughter has her own life now, own business, friends etc
Just because I was there for her when she was baby doesn't mean I'm this scattered messy women who can't let go. I have always actively encouraged my daughters to be independent and they have succeeded in doing so.

There is no shame in being a sahm and wanting to be with your baby.
Being a parent isn't a 'pick an option' that best suits you. You give birth and your job is to look after your baby, you don't get to pay someone else to do it just because you think 'oh it's not for me' that's just wrong. And as far as I'm concerned you bail out then, then you've failed at the first hurdle.

You described your time with your babies as 'the best years of your life'. Your children are adults, yet by your own statement no time with them has equalled that. Surely you can see that a mother valuing their time with a baby over that with their child at any other stage, as their personality emerges appears as odd to mothers who don't feel this way as not enjoying the baby years feels to you?
If my mother felt her best time with me was when I was unable to talk, could share little to nothing of myself and her pleasure in me came from what she did for me, rather than from me as a person, I'd feel rather sad.
No one is shaming SAHMs. You on the other hand are quite deliberately trying to shame mums who don't want to care for their babies full time. I hope you dont call your independent successful daughter hideous and a failure should she choose to retain her independence and success alongside having children.

5128gap · 13/08/2023 08:04

fullbloom87 · 13/08/2023 01:21

@ChristmasCrumpet

Yes I do to be quite honest.
I've worked in nurseries and to be Frank a lot of the parents were rubbish. More interested in their friends and career then how their baby was fairing stuck in a crèche all day.
Cognitive dissonance is what it is.
You can't say a mother who drops her 4 month old baby to a big overcrowded crèche everyday because she'd rather go and work at the insurance company, loves her baby more than the mother who spends 24/7 with their baby and focuses 100% on being that baby's carer.
And you can't say the baby in the nursery will be happier either because I have first hand experience to tell you that baby is not as okay as you're led to believe.
I'm supportive of mothers going back to work early to make ends meet, but not for selfish reasons like not being arsed to sacrifice a couple of years for their baby.

You may have some years in, but if you still believe the amount of love a parent feels and the outcome for their child hinges on being with them 24/7 for the first two years, I can't imagine your experience in those years has been very wide.
I've been a parent for more than 30 years. Also have successful independent children. Grandchildren now too. And I can assure you that there are acts of love and sacrifice that many mums make throughout that long journey against which the first two years are entirely irrelevant.
Not to mention that you are choosing to compare the most extreme situation you can imagine with being a SAHM. A cold hearted mother who'd leave her baby in poor childcare because she'd prefer to do a job you've chosen to deliberately to sound trivial. When the reality is most mums would no doubt select a better establishment than the one that employed you. And women these days are working in all sorts of essential and meaningful roles that were they to give them up to be a SAHM would make the world a poorer place for us all.
I'm very grateful the doctor who operated on my child (who had a child the same age herself who she presumably 'farmed' out while she worked) wasn't at home finger painting.

Lig · 13/08/2023 08:08

I’ve just seen yet another thread this morning where posters are talking about tripping over young kids on purpose or ‘accidentally’ pouring stuff on them (they were apparently screeching & running around in a restaurant)

I just find it so odd, adults talking so casually about inflicting violence on kids. It’s pathetic.

Green777 · 13/08/2023 08:15

5128gap · 13/08/2023 07:40

You described your time with your babies as 'the best years of your life'. Your children are adults, yet by your own statement no time with them has equalled that. Surely you can see that a mother valuing their time with a baby over that with their child at any other stage, as their personality emerges appears as odd to mothers who don't feel this way as not enjoying the baby years feels to you?
If my mother felt her best time with me was when I was unable to talk, could share little to nothing of myself and her pleasure in me came from what she did for me, rather than from me as a person, I'd feel rather sad.
No one is shaming SAHMs. You on the other hand are quite deliberately trying to shame mums who don't want to care for their babies full time. I hope you dont call your independent successful daughter hideous and a failure should she choose to retain her independence and success alongside having children.

Sorry but to say that you’d be sad if the best times of your mothers life was when you were a baby and had nothing to say is ridiculous. This is a very crucial time in a babies life not to mention how lovely it is to bond with your baby in those first years.

Not saying it’s wrong to leave baby in a nursery to work, needs must. But to write off the whole experience of mothering your baby in the first few years like this is just bonkers.

Green777 · 13/08/2023 08:16

Lig · 13/08/2023 08:08

I’ve just seen yet another thread this morning where posters are talking about tripping over young kids on purpose or ‘accidentally’ pouring stuff on them (they were apparently screeching & running around in a restaurant)

I just find it so odd, adults talking so casually about inflicting violence on kids. It’s pathetic.

Omg that’s disgusting!!!

What thread is that?

Green777 · 13/08/2023 08:19

5128gap · 13/08/2023 08:04

You may have some years in, but if you still believe the amount of love a parent feels and the outcome for their child hinges on being with them 24/7 for the first two years, I can't imagine your experience in those years has been very wide.
I've been a parent for more than 30 years. Also have successful independent children. Grandchildren now too. And I can assure you that there are acts of love and sacrifice that many mums make throughout that long journey against which the first two years are entirely irrelevant.
Not to mention that you are choosing to compare the most extreme situation you can imagine with being a SAHM. A cold hearted mother who'd leave her baby in poor childcare because she'd prefer to do a job you've chosen to deliberately to sound trivial. When the reality is most mums would no doubt select a better establishment than the one that employed you. And women these days are working in all sorts of essential and meaningful roles that were they to give them up to be a SAHM would make the world a poorer place for us all.
I'm very grateful the doctor who operated on my child (who had a child the same age herself who she presumably 'farmed' out while she worked) wasn't at home finger painting.

I agree with your points however it’s safe to say nurseries are not the ideal establishments patents sometimes think for very young babies.

itsgettingweird · 13/08/2023 08:23

Issuefroth · 10/08/2023 18:12

Most children I have passed this week seemed to have been mid Summer Scream contest - not in distress- just shrieking for the sake of it. One today following their parent around the supermarket sounding out a constant high-pitch squeal - all the parent could say was “this way, Tobey*”

Well I guess that's better than the one in Tesco the other day who - along with her friend - kept doing it back and encouraging the kid.

I live opposite a park and the kids do shriek unnecessarily but it also makes me smile slightly because at least they are getting it out of their system in a sensible place.

A public play park is definitely the place to push boundaries on noise. A supermarket is not.

5128gap · 13/08/2023 08:27

Green777 · 13/08/2023 08:15

Sorry but to say that you’d be sad if the best times of your mothers life was when you were a baby and had nothing to say is ridiculous. This is a very crucial time in a babies life not to mention how lovely it is to bond with your baby in those first years.

Not saying it’s wrong to leave baby in a nursery to work, needs must. But to write off the whole experience of mothering your baby in the first few years like this is just bonkers.

I'm responding to a poster that said the decision to work when you have a baby is 'hideous' and means you love your child less. Yet you choose to call me ridiculous?
I'm not saying some women don't enjoy babies. I'm saying that to elevate that stage of a life time with another person, over everything else that person offers you, as that poster did, is imo sad. Nobody remains a baby. To know your mother feels her best years with you were over at 2 years old, is sad for mother and child.

ChristmasCrumpet · 13/08/2023 13:41

Lig · 13/08/2023 08:08

I’ve just seen yet another thread this morning where posters are talking about tripping over young kids on purpose or ‘accidentally’ pouring stuff on them (they were apparently screeching & running around in a restaurant)

I just find it so odd, adults talking so casually about inflicting violence on kids. It’s pathetic.

To add a little bit of sense and context, I presume you mean a thread where parents are allowing their children to run around a restaurant and spoiling the (often expensive/treat) experience for others.

"Well that's what children do."

No, it's what some children are allowed to do when their parents have no consideration or regard for anyone else or the environment they are in.

So when a poster says, for example, just fling food at them, it's tongue in cheek, implying treating shoddy conduct with the deserving shoddy conduct in return.

But then you knew that really, didn't you.

bellabasset · 13/08/2023 14:04

I was with my dm until I went to school. She taught us to read, we went shopping with her, cooked with her. My parents were happy together and that family bond remained until we lost our parents

Green777 · 13/08/2023 14:20

5128gap · 13/08/2023 08:27

I'm responding to a poster that said the decision to work when you have a baby is 'hideous' and means you love your child less. Yet you choose to call me ridiculous?
I'm not saying some women don't enjoy babies. I'm saying that to elevate that stage of a life time with another person, over everything else that person offers you, as that poster did, is imo sad. Nobody remains a baby. To know your mother feels her best years with you were over at 2 years old, is sad for mother and child.

Ok I get it apologies.

But to me it isn’t sad to say those were the best years. Of course there’s so much more to come and enjoy but who of us wouldn’t do anything to have that time back!

Sabrinasummersamples · 13/08/2023 14:36

Of course there’s so much more to come and enjoy but who of us wouldn’t do anything to have that time back!

Me actually!! If I'm completely honest the baby and toddler years were literally the hardest time of my life. I always loved my kids (obviously) but I absolutely didn't enjoy parenting at that age. As they get older and become more their own people I much MUCH prefer it.
I may have been influenced by the fact that I had PND when they were teeny and then as toddlers they used to run in separate directions and it was terrifying (twins) but I think the experience of 1 baby or toddler at a time probably would have been different.

OP posts:
ChristmasCrumpet · 13/08/2023 15:27

Sabrinasummersamples · 13/08/2023 14:36

Of course there’s so much more to come and enjoy but who of us wouldn’t do anything to have that time back!

Me actually!! If I'm completely honest the baby and toddler years were literally the hardest time of my life. I always loved my kids (obviously) but I absolutely didn't enjoy parenting at that age. As they get older and become more their own people I much MUCH prefer it.
I may have been influenced by the fact that I had PND when they were teeny and then as toddlers they used to run in separate directions and it was terrifying (twins) but I think the experience of 1 baby or toddler at a time probably would have been different.

Me too!

My youngest are also twins. And the first teeny tiny, asleep half the time, and critically couldn't sod off at speed in opposite directions bit was nice.

Between 1 and 2 when they had all the motor skills and none of the listening skills, one was a bolter, and the other a "carrrrrry meeeeee".....

Let me make it very clear. I absolutely do not wish to return to those days. Did lose the baby weight, plus some, ridiculously fast though Grin

110APiccadilly · 13/08/2023 15:35

If my mother felt her best time with me was when I was unable to talk,

I have to say that I'm looking forward to the day my toddler learns that it is possible to live your life without a running commentary.

That said, I've found so far I enjoy my children more as they get older. I prefer a chatty toddler who wants to ask me questions and can tell me what she's thinking to a newborn, cute and lovely as the newborn was. I love watching them explore the world and learn new stuff.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 13/08/2023 18:23

Sabrinasummersamples · 13/08/2023 14:36

Of course there’s so much more to come and enjoy but who of us wouldn’t do anything to have that time back!

Me actually!! If I'm completely honest the baby and toddler years were literally the hardest time of my life. I always loved my kids (obviously) but I absolutely didn't enjoy parenting at that age. As they get older and become more their own people I much MUCH prefer it.
I may have been influenced by the fact that I had PND when they were teeny and then as toddlers they used to run in separate directions and it was terrifying (twins) but I think the experience of 1 baby or toddler at a time probably would have been different.

Same here. DD was the baby/toddler that didn't eat,sleep,talk,reflux you name it. Did I love her? Of course I did. Was she absolutely adorable? Of course she was. There's a reason I stopped at one though.Grin

Boomboom22 · 13/08/2023 23:51

Haha I think very very few people want those years back! Lovely as they were I'm so glad my youngest is starting primary and no more nappies, naps, potty training, tantrums due to no words are over.
Grandchildren in 10 or preferably 15 years will do fine thank you.