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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WWYD if your husband...

280 replies

Secondplace · 08/08/2023 04:32

...was perving on women half his age?

My husband has been working away at the other end of the world for the past six months. Usually he works in a very male dominated environment with no women but in Australia it doesn't seem to be the same and so he has been working with young women aged approx 18-25. He is 42.

Anyway, he and his colleagues have been sharing screen shots of some of these young women 🤢 some in bikinis (I assume from Facebook/Instagram) and sending messages back and forth to other men at work with lots of innuendo. I'm fairly certain no cheating went on, but I feel pretty horrified. One of the men in the group messages was fired for harassing a young girl/Sending inappropriate messages. My H told me all about this and heavily criticised this guy to me, but only a few months ago he was joining in with this man in what I would consider pervy behaviour for men in their 40s.

I snooped on his phone (I know I know) that's how I know about this. What would you think if this was your husband/partner?

I'm really upset and don't know if I'm overreacting - we have two young DDs and the thought of men doing this to them in 10-15 years time makes me feel sick. I was not happy about him working away to begin with but he insisted it was something he had to do financially/career wise so I reluctantly gave him the green light , but now I feel like a mug, holding down the fort while he is acting like a dog in heat. AIBU?

OP posts:
monsteramunch · 10/08/2023 10:55

Jesus fucking Christ those messages are disgusting.

I'm sure some people will be along to tell me this is an overreaction but I honestly couldn't stay with my partner if I discovered him speaking like that.

Not because of jealousy / me seeing his behaviour as a threat to our marriage / me worrying about him cheating etc, but because I would find him so completely repulsive after seeing him speak like that about women.

The fact they are women who are much younger, likely junior and therefore in a vulnerable position when it comes to the power dynamic exacerbates this further.

As does the hypocrisy of men like this who would no doubt think a bloke their age speaking about their daughters at 18-21 in that way are more likely to be predatory and shouldn't be anywhere near those young women.

I'm sorry OP, it sucks to find out someone isn't the person you thought they were.

As I say, I would have to end the relationship because I wouldn't respect or like someone I knew spoke like this. And I certainly wouldn't be attracted to them anymore.

Flowers
montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 11:00

The worst thing about all of this is not that these messages are disgusting in themselves, but that there are other deleted messages. That means the disgusting messages you are seeing are not even the worst ones. If he kept these and didn't delete them, I dread to think what he actually deleted.

montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 11:01

I also think that these messages are an incitement to cheat.

"I reckon she'll be a good goer".

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 10/08/2023 11:06

Yeah I wouldn't be able to forgive those messages. I'm so sorry OP, this must be a terrible shock to you.

Original poster
Secondplace · 10/08/2023 11:07

montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 11:00

The worst thing about all of this is not that these messages are disgusting in themselves, but that there are other deleted messages. That means the disgusting messages you are seeing are not even the worst ones. If he kept these and didn't delete them, I dread to think what he actually deleted.

That was my thoughts exactly montecarlo7 what on earth was deleted if he thought those ones were ok to leave?! I'm agog that he left any of it on the phone, he knows I'd hate any and all of it. I can only surmise that because he knew I couldn't see his phone/wouldn't see me for months that he was lax and forgot about them.

OP posts:
Original poster
Secondplace · 10/08/2023 11:24

montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 11:01

I also think that these messages are an incitement to cheat.

"I reckon she'll be a good goer".

The girl in question is 18/19 max and man who wrote that has a 15 year old daughter. I find it all so disturbing. He also "befriended" another young girl who worked in his local shop when he was on his weeks off and tried to get them to hire her as he fancied her. Turned out she was only 17 so she couldn't work for them, he pretended he had no idea but I think he did, the man is a true predator.

OP posts:
Gladyys · 10/08/2023 11:25

Secondplace · 10/08/2023 11:07

That was my thoughts exactly montecarlo7 what on earth was deleted if he thought those ones were ok to leave?! I'm agog that he left any of it on the phone, he knows I'd hate any and all of it. I can only surmise that because he knew I couldn't see his phone/wouldn't see me for months that he was lax and forgot about them.

Show quote history

If confronted i bet he will dismiss it all as 'banter', how 'he has to go along with it to fit in', how he needs to feel one of the lads but there's nothing in it, how he is lonely within you and it is just harmless fun.

I would watch and wait. I bet, sadly, there is worse stuff but confronting him over these messages may just result in major gaslighting from him. I'd snoop more although it is of course 'shitty standards' but when there is so much at stake you need more info.

Gladyys · 10/08/2023 11:25

Without*

Turfwars · 10/08/2023 11:29

Thoughts?

Utterly vile messages. And so much worse as he thinks that these aren't bad enough to delete like the others.

You said yourself that you work and no mortgage and that you would manage without his salary so it's not like this is a necessary situation you've to endure to keep a roof over you head.

tattygrl · 10/08/2023 11:29

This is disgusting. It's not simply the "perving" over young women, but actually sending screenshots of women they know and work with is utterly reprehensible. What a disgusting work environment for those young women to have to work in. I couldn't look past this, because it' isn't simply a middle aged man getting turned on by young women generally, but him and other men sexually objectifying young women they work with and know personally. Takes it to a whole other level in my opinion. I wouldn't want to be with someone like this, especially as you say you have daughters. I'm sorry, OP.

montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 11:29

Secondplace · 10/08/2023 11:24

The girl in question is 18/19 max and man who wrote that has a 15 year old daughter. I find it all so disturbing. He also "befriended" another young girl who worked in his local shop when he was on his weeks off and tried to get them to hire her as he fancied her. Turned out she was only 17 so she couldn't work for them, he pretended he had no idea but I think he did, the man is a true predator.

Show quote history

The pathetic thing about it is that they are talking as if they might have a chance in some parallel universe. Deluded and disgusting.

ThelmaBorden · 10/08/2023 11:32

what the eye doesn’t see the heart doesn’t grieve over

Bookworm20 · 10/08/2023 11:33

He probably left the ones that say the things like 'my hunting days are over', and the message telling the young woman he didn't want her number and mentioned you, because he thinks in his head this is him being loyal.
Like, oh look, I mentioned I can't get involved in all this.
Then the stupid shit sent them on, possibly forgetting you'd be able to see that too, and possibly forgot to delete a couple of the other comments deeming them not as urgent to delete as the actual ones he did delete.

Either way, if my dp had come back from working abroad with that on his phone AND coupled with a bunch of deleted messages I would certainly be 'overreacting'. It would give me the ick and like you i'd be wondering who the hell this person is and seeing them in a very different (and very bad) light.
I think that would be the beginning of the end of our relationship to be honest. Trust would be severely dented, if not gone, and its almost impossible to get trust back.

were the group messages in whatsapp? Because if they were you may be able to see any images he deleted from his photoreel by going into settings, storage and data, manage storage and then when you select the chat at bottom of that page it shows all images shared in that group, I think even the ones deleted from the chat afterwards. It will also show any chats that have had images sent in them which have been deleted from the actual chat section. It will only show images though, not text, but you'll get an idea if there was more

tattygrl · 10/08/2023 11:38

The more I think about this the more upsetting and disturbing it is, OP.

The crux of this, to me, is that this is how he views women and girls. He has daughters.

It's utterly nasty, bleak and horrible. I wouldn't want to continue a marriage with him, for the reason that this is how he believes it's acceptable to talk about women. Sharing their personal pictures around groups of other, older, men. Making sexual comments. Making disgusting comments about their size. Talking about them in bed.

OP I'm sorry but I don't see how you can go on with him. This must be so shocking and distressing for you. Have you got any trusted people irl you can confide in? Flowers

tattygrl · 10/08/2023 11:39

Also, it really crushes me that the company director is in these conversations. What fucking chance do we have, as women? What chance do our friends, daughters, nieces have? These men view us this way and I couldn't be married to one of them.

Lampzade · 10/08/2023 11:42

Masterofhappydays · 09/08/2023 01:12

There you go, OP. Everything is good. The random man said so. Forgive your DH and move on. 🙄

  1. yes, quite right, the behaviour is seedy and the OP can and does expect better. You should have stopped there.
  2. Probably every woman while younger was made to feel objectified by strange, old men. We hated those men. We hated how they made us feel. If we fast forward 20 years and find out we’re married to one of those men, trust us, we feel a repulsion that makes us not only want to be not married to that idiot anymore but also want to exterminate any man who behaves like that. Those poor young women having to endure what we once did. It’s not jealousy we feel because of them, we feel embarrassed that the world has not moved on and that our daughters are being subjected to old dirty men.
  3. Not a baseless speculation for sex workers. There’s brothels everywhere in Australia (I live here); especially around places where they know British and Irish workers are based. Men who view women as sex objects usually use women as sex objects.
  4. Yep. We know a lot of men are like this. We also know a lot of men are not like this. When we decide we want a man who isn’t like this, one who respects women (and everyone) and sees them as more than what they look like, we are happy. When/if we find out our husbands are nothing more than misogynistic creeps, we feel a bit down about it. Especially if we have children (daughters!!!) with them.
  5. Looking and finding someone attractive is normal. Nobody disputes that. OP’s husband however is speaking appallingly about his work colleagues and sharing their pictures. Look and appreciate is great. We pretty much all do that. It’s the actions afterwards that OP has the issue with.
  6. respecting young women you find attractive is possible, yes. However OP’s husband has been anything but respectful. Again, that’s the issue.
  7. Yes he was weak, carried away in “men mentality” hence why OP now views him as a piece of trash, has the ick and no longer thinks she has got “one of the good ones” as the good ones don’t do this!
Show quote history

This

Lampzade · 10/08/2023 11:45

Secondplace · 09/08/2023 09:31

I did actually go through most of those thoughts yesterday JeremyFischer. Wondering if I was over-reacting, this was just "laddish" behaviour that's normal amongst men etc. but actually your first point is enough.

I also simply don't accept that it's normal for men in their 40's to be sexually attracted to teenage girls closer to their daughter's age than their own. I actually do think that is indicative of a deeper depravity/a major character flaw. I was that teenage girl once and I remember those creepy bastards all too well and how I felt when it was done to me.

The idea that my husband was simply a bit weak and got carried away with the boys is laughable. He is a very confident man, has no problem asserting his opinion on any matter. Like I said above, if he has been a passive observer to these messages I'd get it. I understand calling it out and putting a stop to it is beyond the capabilities of most men (hence why we have the rapey societies we have), but he could have said nothing, or even just laughed along even. He didn't do that. He actively got involved in a grim conversation and not only that, but the worst part to me is he carried that conversation on with other men and sent those girl's photos around to people who weren't in the original conversation - he can't claim group pressure on that front.

Your point about posters having a worrying disrespect for the commitment involved in a marriage aptly sums up my thoughts about my husband. He left a young family and flew more than 10,000 miles from home, when he knew his wife wasn't particularly happy about it. The idea was he was going to put his head down and work his arse off so at least the distance from his young children would pay off/be worth it. I made significant sacrifices so he could do so and didn't exactly enjoy being the only parent on hand for months at a time. I feel massively disrespected that he seems to be treating this move as his little gap year to leer at young women in the sunshine. He unequivocally knows that I would be disgusted by this and he did it anyway. That, in my view, shows a fundamental disregard for the commitment involved in his marriage and worse again - a fundamental disregard for his daughter's happiness and safety in the future. He is enabling and extending the culture that puts girls at a huge disadvantage in life. I hate him for doing this.

Thanks for posting. It's consolidated my thoughts somewhat and I feel much more prepared to counter the minimisation and excuses that will inevitably come my way when I bring it up with him.

Agree

Rightioohh · 10/08/2023 11:45

Honestly if that was my dh, I would out him and the others to their firm, on behalf of me and my daughters and every other woman.
I experienced a ridiculous amount of this as a 20 something. It was scary and humiliating, in what should be a safe, professional working environment.
I appreciate he might lose his job and that would impact your family finances but letting this culture continue under our noses needs to stop. For your dds and those girls sakes

Untrained · 10/08/2023 11:45

"These men view us this way" I think this is the problem isnt it? How many of us think, like the OP did - my husband/father/brother/son isnt like 'those men'. Yet time and time again we find out they are.

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 11:46

tattygrl · 10/08/2023 11:39

Also, it really crushes me that the company director is in these conversations. What fucking chance do we have, as women? What chance do our friends, daughters, nieces have? These men view us this way and I couldn't be married to one of them.

That and the fact that the messages from the guy who was fired are still there leads me to believe that either he hasn’t been fired at all. Or if he has it was for something else. If the boss is joining in, why would he fire someone else for it? Obviously if the boss thinks it’s fine it puts pressure on the others to take part to stay in his favour.

montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 11:47

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 11:46

That and the fact that the messages from the guy who was fired are still there leads me to believe that either he hasn’t been fired at all. Or if he has it was for something else. If the boss is joining in, why would he fire someone else for it? Obviously if the boss thinks it’s fine it puts pressure on the others to take part to stay in his favour.

Show quote history

Still trying to find excuses for the men, I see.

montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 11:48

None of those men were under pressure to take part in that exchange. They could have stayed quiet.

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 11:49

montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 11:47

Still trying to find excuses for the men, I see.

Show quote history

How is that in any way an excuse? It’s pretty clear that the boss - a man - is enabling if not encouraging all this. He could shut it down in a heartbeat if he wanted to.

HowToSaveAWife · 10/08/2023 11:51

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 10/08/2023 10:55

Of course I'm quite alright. You're the one being rude, not me.

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You waded in with no helpful comment for the OP, but instead to reprimand me for being "offensive" when citing my own experience...of men...from my own country... And I said, it was a passing thought on a phrase used by the OP. That is it.

You have yet to actually add anything of value to the OP but you're continuing on with this. I'm not the rude one here. You've attempted to be the tone police and shown your arse. You don't seem alright, at all. Have a good day.

alwaysmovingforwards · 10/08/2023 11:56

floribunda18 · 08/08/2023 10:42

You have very low standards @Blossomtoes if you think that someone sharing photos from someone else's social media on phone messages, even if a public profile, is acceptable.

I think you're a bit naive to not realise that when people post stuff on the internet, anyone can look at it.

If passwords were hacked, privacy settings breached, photos taken without others knowing.. then yeah that's different.

Constantly amazes me what people share with no privacy settings. Recently heard about a school teacher uploading underwear pictures.. and then the disgust and outrage that students are viewing them...

I've taught my kids (now young adults) to share online only what you know will be viewed by grandma, your boss, your future kids and an anonymous pervert.

I'm not excusing the actions of these men in the OP, but to choose not understand how the world works (regardless whether you agree with the world or not) and then post your bikini pics to all and sundry, its then terribly naive to be outraged or upset at who looked at them. Makes no sense to me.