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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WWYD if your husband...

280 replies

Secondplace · 08/08/2023 04:32

...was perving on women half his age?

My husband has been working away at the other end of the world for the past six months. Usually he works in a very male dominated environment with no women but in Australia it doesn't seem to be the same and so he has been working with young women aged approx 18-25. He is 42.

Anyway, he and his colleagues have been sharing screen shots of some of these young women 🤢 some in bikinis (I assume from Facebook/Instagram) and sending messages back and forth to other men at work with lots of innuendo. I'm fairly certain no cheating went on, but I feel pretty horrified. One of the men in the group messages was fired for harassing a young girl/Sending inappropriate messages. My H told me all about this and heavily criticised this guy to me, but only a few months ago he was joining in with this man in what I would consider pervy behaviour for men in their 40s.

I snooped on his phone (I know I know) that's how I know about this. What would you think if this was your husband/partner?

I'm really upset and don't know if I'm overreacting - we have two young DDs and the thought of men doing this to them in 10-15 years time makes me feel sick. I was not happy about him working away to begin with but he insisted it was something he had to do financially/career wise so I reluctantly gave him the green light , but now I feel like a mug, holding down the fort while he is acting like a dog in heat. AIBU?

OP posts:
Fuckingfuming1 · 10/08/2023 07:35

ladycardamom · 10/08/2023 03:53

I've worked in the mines in Australia. If those messages were seen or exposed, they'd get sacked and walked off site immediately. I've seen it happen.

Yes I can confirm the same I worked alongside HR in Rio Tinto and BHP and Chevron, and none of them would stand for that. As for the Aussies being like years behind, absolutely not they are nipping it in the bud. I wouldn’t know if the same action would be taken in the UK for that kind of behaviour.

personally, if you can get the girls details, I would alert them and let them do what they need to do to make sure that he doesn’t go back to Australia every second stint.

Gladyys · 10/08/2023 07:39

'He's home now but due to go back out in a couple of weeks. I'm away with my sister and her DC camping for a couple of days and haven't spoken to him face to face since I saw the messages'

Why arrange to go camping when he's back after being away for 6mths?! Even without the current problem it would seem odd timing as he's going back in a couple of weeks.

ZickZack · 10/08/2023 07:42

My first boyfriend was like this. I couldn't get past it. He became an ex not long after.
I find it creepy and disgusting to do that to women (or in your case young women).

Runner456 · 10/08/2023 07:45

A lot of manly men only group chats, football, rugby, builders are set up for arranging things but over a few months slowly turn into page 3 of the sun 20 times a day

A lot of the groups members are there for the origial reason so kinda have to stay in it

ArseMenagerie · 10/08/2023 07:52

Women have very little idea of how much men hate them - Germaine Greer

you’ve seen behind the curtain OP. I’d tell him you know, don’t stand for any deflection about you looking at his phone. Tell him you know how he behaves when the women he’s supposed to love aren’t about. Then ask him to do some serious thinking about misogyny and the poison that it is. Then say you accidentally forwarded the chat to his mum …

HowToSaveAWife · 10/08/2023 07:58

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 10/08/2023 06:50

Unless I wasn't quite clear, I am also Irish born and bred, and have lived in both Northern Ireland and Ireland, also London for a decade, I have lived in Australia for ten years and am also Australian. I still find your generalizations to be offensive, believe me none of it went over my head. There are sexist pigs everywhere, Ireland and/or Australian men are no better/worse than any other.

Show quote history

If you would slow down and see beyond labelling me offensive, you would see I asked because of the particular turn of phrase. I've explained that twice, you don't seem to understand that. Or you don't want to.

Thanks for your personal history lesson. You must be the only one that has left Ireland and moved around and experienced many from all walks of life. Congratulations, I bow to you.

Stravaig · 10/08/2023 08:07

A lot of the groups members are there for the origial reason so kinda have to stay in it

This is where the wrong thinking is. Men in those chats should call it out. And leave if it doesn't stop. I'm in my 50's, I've already had decades of crap from sexist and abusive men. I'm used to it. I'm used to them. We all are.

Now it's the gargantuan mass of supposedly good men who I despise. The ones who go along with it. Quietly. Passively. Fitting in. Not causing waves.

They have spent their entire lives soaking up all the benefits of male privilege, without ever using any of that privilege to challenge their own sex. No, they leave that fight to women. What a pointless and mediocre and cowardly waste of space they are.

Every single man should be actively and proactively standing against sexism and misogyny in all its forms every single time it crosses their path. Almost none do. In public figures, it is so rare as to be remarkable. Andy Murray. That's it.

Not all men? Aye, right.

montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 08:09

Stravaig · 10/08/2023 08:07

A lot of the groups members are there for the origial reason so kinda have to stay in it

This is where the wrong thinking is. Men in those chats should call it out. And leave if it doesn't stop. I'm in my 50's, I've already had decades of crap from sexist and abusive men. I'm used to it. I'm used to them. We all are.

Now it's the gargantuan mass of supposedly good men who I despise. The ones who go along with it. Quietly. Passively. Fitting in. Not causing waves.

They have spent their entire lives soaking up all the benefits of male privilege, without ever using any of that privilege to challenge their own sex. No, they leave that fight to women. What a pointless and mediocre and cowardly waste of space they are.

Every single man should be actively and proactively standing against sexism and misogyny in all its forms every single time it crosses their path. Almost none do. In public figures, it is so rare as to be remarkable. Andy Murray. That's it.

Not all men? Aye, right.

This.

Thomasina79 · 10/08/2023 08:10

I agree with all the comments. I am way, way past the age for this sort of behaviour but I remember only too well being 17 back in the 70’s (!) having to cope with this type of behaviour. It’s gross. I cannot understand why middle aged men think they are still attractive to young girls, who are only interested in boys their own age.

LovelyJubbly12345 · 10/08/2023 08:17

For me, it's really hard to comment, because you haven't give a lot of context.

I've had friends send me photo's of guys before, with a comment like "phoar". And it's all a bit of a laugh.

It would be entirely different if the comment was "What would I give to fuck this one's brains out"

What were the comments like?

This doesn't excuse any of it by the way, I wouldn't like it at all, but I'm trying to see whether it's banter (still not nice), or something much darker (and marriage ending).

monsteramunch · 10/08/2023 08:22

LovelyJubbly12345 · 10/08/2023 08:17

For me, it's really hard to comment, because you haven't give a lot of context.

I've had friends send me photo's of guys before, with a comment like "phoar". And it's all a bit of a laugh.

It would be entirely different if the comment was "What would I give to fuck this one's brains out"

What were the comments like?

This doesn't excuse any of it by the way, I wouldn't like it at all, but I'm trying to see whether it's banter (still not nice), or something much darker (and marriage ending).

Is this honestly not enough context for you?

Yes, when you read how they spoke about these girls, they were simply objects there for their entertainment. Awful. I worked in that environment in my twenties and it was so intimidating at times.

They also shared a photo of another young girl who was a bit overweight and made awful disparaging comments about her too, so it doesn't matter what these women look like - they are judged solely in terms of their "fuckability"

mangochops · 10/08/2023 08:24

Secondplace · 09/08/2023 09:31

I did actually go through most of those thoughts yesterday JeremyFischer. Wondering if I was over-reacting, this was just "laddish" behaviour that's normal amongst men etc. but actually your first point is enough.

I also simply don't accept that it's normal for men in their 40's to be sexually attracted to teenage girls closer to their daughter's age than their own. I actually do think that is indicative of a deeper depravity/a major character flaw. I was that teenage girl once and I remember those creepy bastards all too well and how I felt when it was done to me.

The idea that my husband was simply a bit weak and got carried away with the boys is laughable. He is a very confident man, has no problem asserting his opinion on any matter. Like I said above, if he has been a passive observer to these messages I'd get it. I understand calling it out and putting a stop to it is beyond the capabilities of most men (hence why we have the rapey societies we have), but he could have said nothing, or even just laughed along even. He didn't do that. He actively got involved in a grim conversation and not only that, but the worst part to me is he carried that conversation on with other men and sent those girl's photos around to people who weren't in the original conversation - he can't claim group pressure on that front.

Your point about posters having a worrying disrespect for the commitment involved in a marriage aptly sums up my thoughts about my husband. He left a young family and flew more than 10,000 miles from home, when he knew his wife wasn't particularly happy about it. The idea was he was going to put his head down and work his arse off so at least the distance from his young children would pay off/be worth it. I made significant sacrifices so he could do so and didn't exactly enjoy being the only parent on hand for months at a time. I feel massively disrespected that he seems to be treating this move as his little gap year to leer at young women in the sunshine. He unequivocally knows that I would be disgusted by this and he did it anyway. That, in my view, shows a fundamental disregard for the commitment involved in his marriage and worse again - a fundamental disregard for his daughter's happiness and safety in the future. He is enabling and extending the culture that puts girls at a huge disadvantage in life. I hate him for doing this.

Thanks for posting. It's consolidated my thoughts somewhat and I feel much more prepared to counter the minimisation and excuses that will inevitably come my way when I bring it up with him.

Excellent post OP! I agree with all of your points and feel the same. I work with a man in his 60s who has two daughters in their 20s and he is always going on about how they get sexually harassed at work and objectified. He is very angry about it and protective of them. Yet, he himself follows young girls on instagram (age 18-25)- the accounts whereby they whip their tops up showing their breasts and bend over to titillate men. For the life of me, I dont understand how he cannot see the bloody hypocrisy here! When its his daughters being objectified he hates it and yet he is doing the very same thing to someone else's daughter but apparently thats different. Its revolting.

ChocolateCinderToffee · 10/08/2023 08:26

If he’s deleted a lot of the messages on his phone, I’d guess he’s been unfaithful. Sorry, OP.

WisherWood · 10/08/2023 08:37

I'd be asking myself, which version of him is the real him? Is he the pervy old bloke who sees women as meat, or is he the kind, decent family man? And if he's the latter, why does Hyde make his appearance? And why does Jekyll do nothing to stop him? Which points to Hyde being the real him and the decent façade being just a façade.

So if you ask him to change, he'll just get better at hiding his pervy tendencies. And if he protects your daughters as they grow up, it won't be because he respects them but because he sees them as his property and thinks other men should respect his property. I'd be thinking long and hard about the kind of man he is. And then I'd probably be looking into divorce. If he's not around for several months at a time, you're doing a lot of solo parenting anyway. Might as well make it official.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/08/2023 08:53

Blossomtoes · 08/08/2023 10:54

Clearly it hasn’t or this thread wouldn’t exist.

Show quote history

That is because of people like you. Maybe with less victims blaming the onus would be placed on those responsible who did the wrong thing instead of the victim.

dhilez · 10/08/2023 08:54

Why were you snooping on his phone in the first place? In your own words ‘had a good look through’.

A huge invasion of privacy although seemingly common among mumsnetters.

If you came to me acting self righteous after secretly pawing through my phone that would be an actual threat to the marriage.

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 09:00

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/08/2023 08:53

That is because of people like you. Maybe with less victims blaming the onus would be placed on those responsible who did the wrong thing instead of the victim.

Show quote history

No, it’s not because of people like me.

It’s because of men like the one who’s the subject of this thread and this sort of thing young girls on instagram (age 18-25)- the accounts whereby they whip their tops up showing their breasts and bend over to titillate men. mentioned by @mangochops.

railmaternity · 10/08/2023 09:01

The problem is he wanted to work abroad (and of course made a convincing case) and be away from his family for so long, and you’re just seeing more of that type of person. I work in a male dominated industry, it’s only men like this who choose to stay away from their families for long periods of time. Yes they cheat, sometimes have second families especially in places like Middle East. Other men, who aren’t the minority, either negotiate to take their family with them or decline the opportunities. He was always like this and maybe stories of what life is like away from the family is what made him so keen to go in the first place. I don’t think it’s a question of whether this messaging is a dealbreaker, it’s his whole character and choice to be apart from the family which is suspect and a dealbreaker.

Gladyys · 10/08/2023 09:08

dhilez · 10/08/2023 08:54

Why were you snooping on his phone in the first place? In your own words ‘had a good look through’.

A huge invasion of privacy although seemingly common among mumsnetters.

If you came to me acting self righteous after secretly pawing through my phone that would be an actual threat to the marriage.

Oh so what. It isn't 'mumsnetters' it's pretty common generally. I bet men would equally have a quick 'snoop' if their partner lived abroad for 6 months at a time.

I always think its odd that people gaslight about 'snooping' when what has been found is the actual problem.

Gladyys · 10/08/2023 09:10

'the accounts whereby they whip their tops up showing their breasts and bend over to titillate men'

Honestly. Women can post what they like! it isn't to 'titillate men'. The problem is older pery blokes leering over them.

dhilez · 10/08/2023 09:11

@Gladyys

How do you know it’s pretty common generally? Maybe among your circle it is.

Thisistyresome · 10/08/2023 09:11

calmcoco · 09/08/2023 19:40

The issue is not that men think young women look attractive.

The issue is that these men discussed their work colleagues in inappropriate terms - if the women were aware of it they could report for sexual harassment - and shared images.

Show quote history

But that is specifically the issue she is raising in the text I quoted.

She think any attraction to young women is “indicative of a deeper depravity/a major character flaw.”

Being concerned with the actions taken, to share the pictures around with commentary, is perfectly reasonable but she specifically states she has an issue with any attraction at all.

A point that you mostly get people to agree on here is being attracted to other people when in a relationship. It is fine to have an issue with a partner acting on attraction to other people that is obvious, but if someone were to say they consider the existence of the attraction is a fundamental flaw would be problem. It would suggest to me that the person probably isn’t in a place to have a relationship, if you are repulsed by someone else still having a normal attraction to others then perhaps you are safer being single.

The original post seemed to be focused on things that matter, but the OPs subsequent posts tend to suggest that there are more issues here.

Gladyys · 10/08/2023 09:15

dhilez · 10/08/2023 09:11

@Gladyys

How do you know it’s pretty common generally? Maybe among your circle it is.

Everyone, given half the chance, would look at their partner's phone and sm particularly the ones who live away from their families for months on end. To say otherwise is bollocks.

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 09:17

Gladyys · 10/08/2023 09:15

Everyone, given half the chance, would look at their partner's phone and sm particularly the ones who live away from their families for months on end. To say otherwise is bollocks.

Show quote history

They really wouldn’t. My bloke worked away from home Monday to Friday for over a decade and it never occurred to me to look at his phone. Don’t judge everyone by your shitty standards.

Fuckingfuming1 · 10/08/2023 09:18

dhilez · 10/08/2023 08:54

Why were you snooping on his phone in the first place? In your own words ‘had a good look through’.

A huge invasion of privacy although seemingly common among mumsnetters.

If you came to me acting self righteous after secretly pawing through my phone that would be an actual threat to the marriage.

My ex-husband’s phone used to be on the kitchen worktop whilst he was in the shower, washing his Dick to go off sleep with some young woman who was traumatised I’m just looking for a shoulder to cry on.

I could’ve saved our entire family about £50 grand and 5 years of heartbreak If I have picked up the mobile and read the messages that were there arranging the dates.