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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WWYD if your husband...

280 replies

Secondplace · 08/08/2023 04:32

...was perving on women half his age?

My husband has been working away at the other end of the world for the past six months. Usually he works in a very male dominated environment with no women but in Australia it doesn't seem to be the same and so he has been working with young women aged approx 18-25. He is 42.

Anyway, he and his colleagues have been sharing screen shots of some of these young women 🤢 some in bikinis (I assume from Facebook/Instagram) and sending messages back and forth to other men at work with lots of innuendo. I'm fairly certain no cheating went on, but I feel pretty horrified. One of the men in the group messages was fired for harassing a young girl/Sending inappropriate messages. My H told me all about this and heavily criticised this guy to me, but only a few months ago he was joining in with this man in what I would consider pervy behaviour for men in their 40s.

I snooped on his phone (I know I know) that's how I know about this. What would you think if this was your husband/partner?

I'm really upset and don't know if I'm overreacting - we have two young DDs and the thought of men doing this to them in 10-15 years time makes me feel sick. I was not happy about him working away to begin with but he insisted it was something he had to do financially/career wise so I reluctantly gave him the green light , but now I feel like a mug, holding down the fort while he is acting like a dog in heat. AIBU?

OP posts:
alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 10/08/2023 11:59

HowToSaveAWife · 10/08/2023 11:51

You waded in with no helpful comment for the OP, but instead to reprimand me for being "offensive" when citing my own experience...of men...from my own country... And I said, it was a passing thought on a phrase used by the OP. That is it.

You have yet to actually add anything of value to the OP but you're continuing on with this. I'm not the rude one here. You've attempted to be the tone police and shown your arse. You don't seem alright, at all. Have a good day.

Tone police? Don't talk bollocks. You came up with a load of nonsense about Irish men, and when I pointed out that there are sexist pigs everywhere you went on the offensive by wheeling out the old mumsnet trope asking if I was quite alright, You were generalizing and I called you on it. So own it. Irish men are no better or worse than any other nationality, and I know that because it's my country too.

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 12:01

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 and @HowToSaveAWife, can you please take your argument somewhere else, please? You’re both getting really annoying.

BitOutOfPractice · 10/08/2023 12:02

OH god you two, (@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 and @HowToSaveAWife ) give it a rest FFS! You've been niggling each other for hours over a side issue. If you want to start a thread about Irish men, start one and let the OP see the wood for the trees!

montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 12:02

This argument is derailing OP's thread.

Secondplace · 10/08/2023 12:05

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 11:46

That and the fact that the messages from the guy who was fired are still there leads me to believe that either he hasn’t been fired at all. Or if he has it was for something else. If the boss is joining in, why would he fire someone else for it? Obviously if the boss thinks it’s fine it puts pressure on the others to take part to stay in his favour.

He definitely was fired. He left the country as he was on a sponsorship visa, but apparently has found someone to take over the sponsorship so will be going back out to Australia soon.

A woman who worked there made a complaint about him that he made her uncomfortable. He sent her messages, one with his top off. The director had to act. I assume he thought the messages were harmless banter and wouldn't go beyond the confines of the group chat.

OP posts:
HowToSaveAWife · 10/08/2023 12:05

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 10/08/2023 11:59

Tone police? Don't talk bollocks. You came up with a load of nonsense about Irish men, and when I pointed out that there are sexist pigs everywhere you went on the offensive by wheeling out the old mumsnet trope asking if I was quite alright, You were generalizing and I called you on it. So own it. Irish men are no better or worse than any other nationality, and I know that because it's my country too.

It wasn't a load of nonsense. I said what the OP said her husband said to her sounded familiar to what I heard from lads I grew up with. I made no disparaging generalisations about Irish men as a whole. I said I recognised the attitude.
I'm glad you've written off what I clearly said was my experience as "nonsense" - it tracks with your behaviour in previous threads. Dogged and wrong.
@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1

billy1966 · 10/08/2023 12:08

Those are the undeleted ones!😳

I agree with @railmaternity.

I think there is definitely an element of men who actively seek out positions far away.

That you don't have a morgage to pay, or real financial pressure, yet he chose to go, is telling.

Can you export that chat to yourself?

The most important thing you can do is get organised quietly

When family ask why you have split, you can forward them his conversation.

I wouldn't want him around my daughters.

Really sleazy.

Parky04 · 10/08/2023 12:09

Tilep · 08/08/2023 07:10

I’d question who I married.

Me too. Checking someones phone is disgraceful.

Lampzade · 10/08/2023 12:12

In addition to all the other questionable behaviour, I would be furious that he would be stupid enough to put his job on the line and therefore the welfare of the dc
Op said that one of the company directors was involved in this vile behaviour. However, if this nonsense continues best believe that the company director will not be the fall guy .
The whole thing is just icky to me tbh.
I would just regard my dh as a pathetic old man and lose respect for him

montecarlo7 · 10/08/2023 12:14

Parky04 · 10/08/2023 12:09

Me too. Checking someones phone is disgraceful.

Really? Why are you focusing on this and not the actual disgraceful behaviour from him. The fact that he was so shifty when she asked to use his phone shows that he knew there was stuff on there that shouldn't be. If he hadn't acted shifty she wouldn't have gone looking.

monsteramunch · 10/08/2023 12:16

@Parky04

Do you have any thoughts on OP's husband's behaviour? Particularly in light of the specific messages she found, which she detailed in a recent post?

Degustibusnonestdisputandem1 · 10/08/2023 12:22

I knew it was going to be mining 🤦🏼‍♀️. I work in the mining industry, though in Victoria where I haven't seen a lot of the issues that come up with FIFO (I drive to site from home every shift day). Previous posters are correct, that behaviour is totally unacceptable and should be reported, it would be taken very seriously.

Secondplace · 10/08/2023 12:24

tattygrl · 10/08/2023 11:38

The more I think about this the more upsetting and disturbing it is, OP.

The crux of this, to me, is that this is how he views women and girls. He has daughters.

It's utterly nasty, bleak and horrible. I wouldn't want to continue a marriage with him, for the reason that this is how he believes it's acceptable to talk about women. Sharing their personal pictures around groups of other, older, men. Making sexual comments. Making disgusting comments about their size. Talking about them in bed.

OP I'm sorry but I don't see how you can go on with him. This must be so shocking and distressing for you. Have you got any trusted people irl you can confide in? Flowers

Thank you tattygrl

I really don't want to tell anyone IRL, I'd be too embarrassed to be honest. I do find it so bleak and yes I'm still sort of shocked by it all. I don't want to sound like a drama llama by saying I was all "shaking and crying" but I was quite physically shaken while reading them. I don't know, it feels like a deception of sorts and I can't shake the feeling that I've been lied to/disrespected and my husband who's loyalty I never questioned before, is not the man I thought and may in fact be even worse than I can imagine (the deleted messages I couldn't see). I can't stop relating it back to our DDs either. How they would feel growing up if their father was creeping on their friends. That he should be a man they can rely on, that he should have girls best interests at heart, but actually in reality young women are just sex objects to him. It's all so disappointing.

OP posts:
SunsetOverParadise · 10/08/2023 12:27

This is so much bigger than just this individual situation, though I am aware for the OP this is her entire world crashing down right now and I feel horribly for her.

We have a society where it’s acceptable for women to be possessions. There is plenty of nuance of course, such as how young women feel their value is in how men see them, so they play into their own objectification by placing such emphasis on their looks and how men rate them. But this is part of the bigger issue of how men wish to control women.

You also see it through this thread in the discussions around the age of the women and that the OP has daughters, which is of course an important point, especially for the OP, but it’s also a way of separating women into categories of who is and isn’t acceptable to objectify. For example, the ease with which our society now accepts porn: it’s okay for THOSE women to be objectified and seen as possessions as long as the dude switches off his laptop and is nice to his family. Or, it’s okay to perv over strangers on IG because ‘he doesn’t know them’ and he takes his kids out once in a blue moon and pays the bills. I understand there is an additional vulnerability when it is younger women who are being treated like this, but it’s a red herring to focus on that aspect. It shouldn’t be okay for men to see and treat any women like this, regardless of age or occupation or level of undress in photographs.

It’s so depressing that this is happening, but I think we all need to play our part in changing it, if that’s what we want to see happen. As women, I think we need to demand better standards of partner for ourselves. There are good men out there, men who call out this bullshit, who want love and family and security. Don’t let the popular narrative that ‘all men are like that’ get to you, because what that creates is resignation - if all men are like that, we think what is the point? Give up, accept it, avoid men. But that’s what men who are like that want women to believe because they need other people to excuse their behaviour. They’re not held responsible, they get a free pass, if it’s ‘just all men are like that.’

Without trying to turn this political, I’m seeing there are some men in the media who are trying to have conversations about what masculinity means now, in order to provide meaning to boys and men, to teach them about how to treat other people (women) and how to invite responsibility into their lives so they have focus and goals. Relegating all men to idiots who just drool over women and have no respect for their wives doesn’t help anyone, least of all women. Boys aren’t born like this, they learn this because we have a society that models it for them.

OP, I’m not sure if any of my comment will help at all, I’m just musing on how we got here to this place that created men like your husband, who think their behaviour is okay. For what it’s worth, your articulate comments show you have your head screwed on. You do not have to accept this behaviour. Unfortunately, what you have learned is that your husband has no regard for you, your children, or the life he has pretended to create with you. He is telling you who he is in one breath, then he is someone else when you are not around. You deserve so much better than that.

Skye99 · 10/08/2023 12:27

Secondplace · 09/08/2023 09:31

I did actually go through most of those thoughts yesterday JeremyFischer. Wondering if I was over-reacting, this was just "laddish" behaviour that's normal amongst men etc. but actually your first point is enough.

I also simply don't accept that it's normal for men in their 40's to be sexually attracted to teenage girls closer to their daughter's age than their own. I actually do think that is indicative of a deeper depravity/a major character flaw. I was that teenage girl once and I remember those creepy bastards all too well and how I felt when it was done to me.

The idea that my husband was simply a bit weak and got carried away with the boys is laughable. He is a very confident man, has no problem asserting his opinion on any matter. Like I said above, if he has been a passive observer to these messages I'd get it. I understand calling it out and putting a stop to it is beyond the capabilities of most men (hence why we have the rapey societies we have), but he could have said nothing, or even just laughed along even. He didn't do that. He actively got involved in a grim conversation and not only that, but the worst part to me is he carried that conversation on with other men and sent those girl's photos around to people who weren't in the original conversation - he can't claim group pressure on that front.

Your point about posters having a worrying disrespect for the commitment involved in a marriage aptly sums up my thoughts about my husband. He left a young family and flew more than 10,000 miles from home, when he knew his wife wasn't particularly happy about it. The idea was he was going to put his head down and work his arse off so at least the distance from his young children would pay off/be worth it. I made significant sacrifices so he could do so and didn't exactly enjoy being the only parent on hand for months at a time. I feel massively disrespected that he seems to be treating this move as his little gap year to leer at young women in the sunshine. He unequivocally knows that I would be disgusted by this and he did it anyway. That, in my view, shows a fundamental disregard for the commitment involved in his marriage and worse again - a fundamental disregard for his daughter's happiness and safety in the future. He is enabling and extending the culture that puts girls at a huge disadvantage in life. I hate him for doing this.

Thanks for posting. It's consolidated my thoughts somewhat and I feel much more prepared to counter the minimisation and excuses that will inevitably come my way when I bring it up with him.

I also simply don't accept that it's normal for men in their 40's to be sexually attracted to teenage girls closer to their daughter's age than their own. I actually do think that is indicative of a deeper depravity/a major character flaw.

OP, I completely agree with you that what your husband did is gross. This would change my feelings towards someone. Whether it was a deal-breaker might depend on how he reacted when I brought it up - whether there was genuine empathy and remorse.

I don't agree that being sexually attracted to teenage girls indicates depravity or a major character flaw though. Not if the teenage girls are 18 or 19 (you say he works with 18-25 year olds). That's normal for men. What I think is wrong is sharing photos and making comments.

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 10/08/2023 12:32

Happy to bow out of the thread, apologies for being tedious. I just hate people making bullshit generalisations. Good luck OP, this must be horrible for you, I genuinely hope you find a happy resolution for you.

WisherWood · 10/08/2023 12:33

I don't think you're overreacting at all OP. Those messages are absolutely vile and he is taking a very active part in this whole culture. I couldn't be with a man who spoke like that. I'm sorry.

Renoroom · 10/08/2023 12:49

Please take screenshots of the messages and send somewhere safe where they can’t be deleted. Purely so that when you do feel ready to have a conversation with your DH they can’t be deleted/ you can’t be gaslit about them.

It would give me the ick, and is obviously an awful shock.

I don’t however think it is marriage ending until you’ve had time to think and have chats with him. And then see what his response is. If he can see that it’s hugely disrespectful to you, your girls and women in general. If he can see that he should be removing himself from these chats. Then that would be a start.

Only you know how far trust is eroded and what it will take to build it back up. If just his response is enough. If he needs to move back home. There may be wider conversations to have, as to how you and he see your lives together playing out in the short and long term and what you both need be happy and move forward.

Oh, as for looking at the phone thing, to me the fact that it’s not something you have ever really done means it’s not something he should be angry about. My DH can go through anything on my phone. He doesn’t. But if he did feel the need to, and I knew that it was abnormal behaviour, I’d be questioning why he felt the need to rather than being angry, and thinking it was a symptom of something else going on here.

ihadamarveloustime · 10/08/2023 12:59

The whole discussion is beyond gross; shocking to think there's even worse things that he deleted in case you saw it! wow.

Can't imagine he'd want anyone looking at and discussing his own daughter likes that.

I know we shouldn't have to ask men 'how would your sisters/mothers/daughters feel' when you talk/behave like this, because women make up half of society and deserve the same respect that men feel entitled to It just so often feels like the 'lesser' half because of behaviour and attitudes like this, and OP's husband and coworkers are helping to perpetuate those shitty behaviours and attitudes that help keep women down and out of so many industries.

It's gross. Pathetic. I could never look at him the same way again, OP. I refused to date guys like that back in my dating days, couldn't imagine being married to one. I'm sorry you appear to be.

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 13:07

Please take screenshots of the messages and send somewhere safe where they can’t be deleted. Purely so that when you do feel ready to have a conversation with your DH they can’t be deleted/ you can’t be gaslit about them.

She’s away from home and presumably her bloke has his phone with him. I’d lay money on those messages having disappeared without trace now. I expect he’ll have warned his colleagues to do the same. Although I can’t imagine the level of stupidity that led any of them to keep them after someone had already been fired. It defies belief that they were so stupid and/or arrogant.

Secondplace · 10/08/2023 13:12

Thank you @SunsetOverParadise your comment does help. It feels like such a mammoth task to attempt to shift this culture but you are right that we need to start demanding better standards from ourselves and our partners. What this means practically for me and my marriage I'm not sure... perhaps like a pp suggested confronting him and gaging his reaction will tell me what steps I need to take. Deep down though I know the damage has been done. If we didn't have DC I wouldn't hesitate to dump a man like this. If I stay I know I'm not likely to forget the glimpse of the man I saw and will now probably always worry if he can be really trusted.

OP posts:
Secondplace · 10/08/2023 13:16

I do have photos of everything. That's how I could relay what was in them.

OP posts:
SunsetOverParadise · 10/08/2023 13:24

Secondplace · 10/08/2023 13:12

Thank you @SunsetOverParadise your comment does help. It feels like such a mammoth task to attempt to shift this culture but you are right that we need to start demanding better standards from ourselves and our partners. What this means practically for me and my marriage I'm not sure... perhaps like a pp suggested confronting him and gaging his reaction will tell me what steps I need to take. Deep down though I know the damage has been done. If we didn't have DC I wouldn't hesitate to dump a man like this. If I stay I know I'm not likely to forget the glimpse of the man I saw and will now probably always worry if he can be really trusted.

I think that’s the crux of it, isn’t it? How you will feel moving forward. I think it’s easy for us, not in this situation, to suggest you leave him, but there are implications to that, practically and emotionally, and it’s not easy. But it’s also not easy to be thinking about what you have read every time he comes near you.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Try and be easy with yourself. Like you say, have the conversation. I wouldn’t necessarily trust what comes out of his mouth but use your intuition. You don’t have to make any snap decisions here. You can drag this out for as long as you need to in order to know what you really want to do.

IncognitoMam · 10/08/2023 14:02

Secondplace · 10/08/2023 13:16

I do have photos of everything. That's how I could relay what was in them.

That's good.

Really feel for you. You must feel physically sick.

QueenCoconut · 10/08/2023 14:21

I’m so sorry OP.
I must admit if this was my DH it would be the end of our marriage and he and his colleagues would be reported to HR. When I first read your opening post I didn’t think it was going to be that bad…until you posted snippets of the actual exchange, they are awful, truly shocking.
I am mother of teenage dd’s and I think we owe it to all girls/ women to fight against this kind of behaviour to make the world safer for them.
Again I’m really sorry you are going through it.

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