"Give nanny a kiss goodbye"

[coverp]

Looking for impartial views on whether I am letting my generally strained relationship with MIL impact my response.

Whenever MIL sees the kids (aged 4 and 2), she tries to insist on big kisses and cuddles to say hello and goodbye. Sometimes they are cuddly kids and other times they are not - they interact with her well. I've always said "do you fancy a hug, high five or a wave?" And let them choose.

Today, MIL tried to insist on kisses - "why don't you want to kiss nanny, you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss her". To which I said "Enough". 2yo then said "how about a wave" and waved and blew a kiss. Which I thought was adorable.

Anyway, MIL has just texted saying "Hi, you really hurt me earlier. Its not too much to ask for the kids to cuddle their grandmother, your approach is ridiculous and they'll end up being rude brats".

I haven't replied, but am spitting. I know she'll have been drinking so definitely won't be engaging tonight. But sense check - AIBU to say they can choose to interact with her on their own terms?!

I always say "give Gaga (my dad) a cuddle goodbye" but if they don't that's totally fine.

Your MIL is an unreasonable, needy twat.

Me too. From quite an early age, I was uncomfortable with physical contact with anyone - including my parents. I have no idea why and it's stayed with me.

Being forced might wellhave been part of me developing this lifelong touch taboo.

@KnittedCardi I visited my grandad near enough every day for 3 years when he went into a care home and sat stroking his head and holding his hand as he died - I was never "made" to give him hugs and kisses as a child, although I loved him and remember wanting to most of the time. I think that suggesting kids should be allowed to say no if they aren't keen on physical contact will lead them to become miserable and lonely is a bit of a stretch tbh.

She sounds a right pain in the rear end! I wish you luck with her!!

You did the right thing of course.

I'm a strong believer in that everyone has their own personal radar. That radar subconsciously determines whether or not you like someone on your first meeting with them and can change as time goes on.
I used to be terribly shy around my next door neighbours' Dad. Fine with Mum, happily played with their kids when we were all younger and in and out of each others homes but just never comfortable around Dad. Years later as an adult - I learned that he was a prolific womaniser and treated his wife like she was mud on his shoe. Now at that young age I would not have understood why I felt that way but I just did!
It's this inbuilt radar that I believe should be nurtured in everyone. We don't all get on with other people, some we do brilliantly and others a sharp stick in their eye would do!!
So the same applies to all my grandkids - some depending on their mood - will hug, others high five, some a silly goodbye but good manners dictates that they behave appropriately when leaving anyones' home but always respecting their personal boundaries.
I won't dictate that they must kiss or whatever but they do need to leave in a way that they are happy with and that does not include bounding out the door as soon as Mum or Dad turns up - that is just rude!
Be guided by your feelings OP - these are your children that you love and want to protect and nurture through life which means accepting their boundaries.

"why don't you want to kiss nanny, you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss her"

It is this sort of emotional blackmail that is so sickening. Makes me want to gag.

She sounds very manipulative and needy. I wouldn't bother responding tbh, let dh deal with her. But you will probably need to future proof your kids against her ways. You don't need to poison them, Just " Granny has different ideas because she's from a different generation, that's not how things are now"

You've done the right thing.

People expect teens to have boundaries, know how to assert their boundaries, and identify when they feel uncomfortable,but then they tell children to ignore their boundaries, accept older people being pushy and coercive, go against their gut instinct if it makes an adult sad, and to put their boundaries second to someone else's guilt tripping.

It's not the job of children to validate adults' egos and feelings.

I would reply:
You might have been raised that children should be forced to kiss and cuddle relatives but the approach me and DH are taking is that our children can choose when to give physical contact. Sometimes they want to cuddle and sometimes they don’t, and they can decide to say goodbye with a wave, which is perfectly acceptable. Schools teach from a very young age now that everyone has the right to control their own bodies and boundaries, and it will be confusing for them to be told it is ‘rude’ not to allow a relative to override this. Using guilt to force them isn’t going to make them love you any more so please stop doing that.

I think it would be a curt answer from me on how children do not have to kiss anyone, and emotional blackmail will not happen in my house. And how very disappointed and sad you are that she would call your children brats.

You are doing the right thing. I give none of the Crunchies about an adult not having the ability to learn what was ok for them isn't okay today.

You and your dh need to present a united front. My eldest is 15, he mentioned in school they were discussing boundaries and he was surprised that a lot of children were made hug/kiss adults.

Buy her a copy of
No More Kisses for Bernard! https://amzn.eu/d/8exMIAj

I agree with this. It’s possible to teach your kids autonomy and boundaries but also teach them that sometimes it’s kind to give an elderly relative a hug. Some real meanness on this thread masquerading as good parenting.

We raised all our kids male and female with excellent boundaries and they’re all pretty good at standing up for themselves and the girls at saying no to men encroaching on boundaries, but also would say before seeing great granny or great auntie to give her a little kiss and hug during visits, did no harm and made elderly relatives who got no physical contact elsewhere happy. I feel a bit sorry for your MIL OP, not even allowed to hug her grandchildren and told to make do with a high five, really sad.

Sorry was trying to quote another poster and failed, was agreeing With them not OP!

It is not the job of children to make up for a lack of physical contact in their lives!
And it’s not a case of not being allowed to hug her grandchildren. She can ask for a hug, but needs to respect that sometimes they might not want one.

For those saying there’s no link between an innocent kiss and cuddle and paedophilia, of course no one is suggesting the MIL is one. But the point is some people out there are, and if you’ve taught your children that it’s ‘kind’ to kiss and cuddle a relative, and rude or brattish not to, how will they know they can decline when great uncle Robert also wants you to sit on his lap and have a kiss and cuddle.

My MIL is not a nice woman and is quite cold with my children, but bless them, they don’t really notice. But when it’s time to leave my DH says ‘give Nana a hug!’ And it’s just so bloody awkward for all of us. The kids don’t particularly want to as they are not that close to their Nana, my MIL knows this, so kind of just stands there knowing she’s a cold fish and I’m grinning like an idiot thinking why does my DH force this every time?

It's about unwanted touching being normalised and validated, children being guilt tripped or peer pressured into it. Because if their parents teach them that they should accept being touched / kissed by people even when it's making them uncomfortable then how do they know when it is ok to say no?

And how does that translate when someone with ill intent wants to touch and kiss them against their will? How do they have clear boundaries if sometimes it's ok?

How would you feel as an adult if someone wouldn't stop hugging and kissing you when you were trying to squirm away / you were saying no? What would you think about someone who wouldn't let you squirm away and who wouldn't accept your 'no'? Would you they were being nice and kind?

We're talking about unwanted hugs and kisses being forced on people. Those people happen to be children. Why does that mean they should accept unwanted hugs and kisses that make them uncomfortable / stressed?

Do you think it's possible for a 2/3/4/5 year old to understand that they 'should' (in your eyes) kiss and hug grandad even when they don't want to, but they 'shouldn't' have to kiss and hug grandad's friend? Or their friend's grandad? Boundaries need to be clear to little children, they can't understand the level of nuance you're expecting by presumably not thinking they should have to hug and kiss all elderly people, but should have to hug and kiss elderly relatives.

Healthy and happy kids have boundaries! No one should be shamed for having these.

Trying to emotionally blackmail little children is disgraceful.
I have never insisted in kissing or hugging our grandchild. Very occasionally, he throws his arms around me, kisses me or tells me he loves me. Rare but magic.

Your MIL needs to be put straight.

In relation to this "I still haven't replied, and have just had a "Aren't you going to respond to me?" message, to which I'm extremely tempted to reply "No.""

I'd reply back "I'm actually trying to put together a suitable response that won't result in us falling out. Your posts and position is making this increasingly difficult"

As a grandmother, I would NEVER expect my DGC to hug or kiss me.
I remember how much I hated that as a child.
Consequently, it is lovely when they spontaneously come up to hug and sometimes kiss me.
I usually just say Hello and Goodbye to them when I arrive and leave.
And I obviously talk to them, and read to them, and play with them, while we are together.

I think this is true and I’d probably point out the reasons in a non-confrontational and measured but firm way.

“I’m sorry if you feel I should have made DC give you a kiss yesterday. It wasn’t about the kiss at that particular time but about teaching them that they people never have to give physical affection to keep somebody happy. Or make those demands of others.

Too often in teenage years there’s the issues of ‘you would do it if you loved me’ etc and DH and I are trying to ensure those attitudes are seen as unacceptable. Unfortunately what seems like a simple request on your part blurs that message.”

It’s possible to teach your kids autonomy and boundaries but also teach them that sometimes it’s kind to give an elderly relative a hug. Some real meanness on this thread masquerading as good parenting
It's kind to give a hug when the child wants to give someone a hug, and consents to it.

Physical contact can be a nice way of showing affection when everyone consents.

Physical affection that is demanded or coerced by people in positions of authority is manipulative. It's worse when the parents join in with the manipulation because that teaches the children that theor parents think that behaviour is acceptable.

Teaching children to overlook their own physical boundaries because someone else guilt trips them/plays the "you're so mean" card, or because other adults have told them to centre adult feelings over their own self-awareness is not kind.