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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Give nanny a kiss goodbye"

406 replies

coverp · 07/08/2023 23:40

Looking for impartial views on whether I am letting my generally strained relationship with MIL impact my response.

Whenever MIL sees the kids (aged 4 and 2), she tries to insist on big kisses and cuddles to say hello and goodbye. Sometimes they are cuddly kids and other times they are not - they interact with her well. I've always said "do you fancy a hug, high five or a wave?" And let them choose.

Today, MIL tried to insist on kisses - "why don't you want to kiss nanny, you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss her". To which I said "Enough". 2yo then said "how about a wave" and waved and blew a kiss. Which I thought was adorable.

Anyway, MIL has just texted saying "Hi, you really hurt me earlier. Its not too much to ask for the kids to cuddle their grandmother, your approach is ridiculous and they'll end up being rude brats".

I haven't replied, but am spitting. I know she'll have been drinking so definitely won't be engaging tonight. But sense check - AIBU to say they can choose to interact with her on their own terms?!

OP posts:
RattleRattle · 08/08/2023 00:24

This reply has been deleted

This user is a goady troll so we've removed their posts.

justanothermanicmonday1 · 08/08/2023 00:25

Kindly, she can fuck off.

RattleRattle · 08/08/2023 00:26

This reply has been deleted

This user is a goady troll so we've removed their posts.

AutumnalPumpkin · 08/08/2023 00:32

My horrid FIL does this and is absolutely relentless. Everybody else has respected my DD (4) wishes.. except him. You're not being unreasonable

IndigoDynamo · 08/08/2023 00:37

I’m “Auntie Indigo” to my friends DC and always offer them a high 5, a silly wave or a hug. 100% they shouldn’t have to hug or kiss me.

It warms my heart when they go for a hug and it means so much more that it’s their choice and not something they are made do.

Tell your MIL to focus on building a relationship rather than forcing something that isn’t there.

whynotwhatknot · 08/08/2023 00:49

wheres your dh in all this

MissTrip82 · 08/08/2023 00:53

watcherintherye · 07/08/2023 23:48

It is very important for children - especially girls - to be taught that their boundaries and consent (or lack thereof) are important and will be respected.

Why especially girls? Children of either sex are equally vulnerable.

Really? Which country are you in? The stats where I live show that girls are around twice as likely to be sexual abused.

I’m very surprised to hear that the massively increased risk for girls is not universal.

mimiku · 08/08/2023 00:56

No YANBU. My family always ask my kids for a kiss and cuddle goodbye, but if they don’t want to do it the issue isn’t forced. I make them say goodbye because it’s rude to completely ignore people leaving but that’s it and thankfully my family don’t force the issue. If kids don’t want to hug or kiss that’s fine, same as if adults don’t want to hug or kiss. Everyone is entitled to their own personal space. MIL is weird and I’d tell her so if it were me.

fullbloom87 · 08/08/2023 00:58

Yanbu it's not good to force children to hug and kiss as it teaches them that they must give out affection on demand. You need to find a way to explain this to your MIL.

TimeToMoveIt · 08/08/2023 00:58

I didn't like it when I was young so mine always had the choice not to if they didn't want. 3 of them are happy to kiss and hug close relatives, even the 2 that are now adults. One dc is like me and I'm lucky if I get a hug!

I don't force hugs and kisses on my dgc it's entirely up to them

Lolapusht · 08/08/2023 00:59

Oh the irony of her calling others rude!

Stick to yours guns OP as you are entirely in the right.

SheerLucks · 08/08/2023 01:00

Gosh I really feel for you OP, your MIL sounds deranged! But your response was great and how it should be.

EvilElsa · 08/08/2023 01:02

YANBU. I HATED being kissed and cuddled as a child (not overly keen on it now either) and I never got a say about it with my grandparents. It made me so uncomfortable and I used to try and find situations to get me out of it like going to the bathroom and then straight to the car via the back door. I absolutely loved them to bits, nothing to do with my feelings about them. Good for you for standing up for your children. Hopefully MIL will calm down and have a clearer think about the situation.

SyncopatedRhythm · 08/08/2023 01:03

My 85 year old DM vividly remembers being forced to kiss visiting family and virtual strangers goodbye throughout her entire childhood, and being severely chastised for ever objecting.

(Even when tears were shed and she was distressed, it was deemed more important that she was considered polite ffs).

Including one neighbour (all her small friends instinctively avoided him...which says it all, really) who was one of those hiding-in-plain-sight types: inappropriately touchy-feely but he laughed it off as 'affectionate cuddles'. And all the adults apparently thought him a natural with the children.
His wife: "Oh, pay no attention, Frank is just being friendly". 🙁

Because of all the above, DM has never insisted on her Grandchildren or any other kids hug or kiss her unless they instigate it. In fact, she's had heated discussions with her friends who see it as their Grandparental right to demand such.

Interestingly, everyone's kids adore her and naturally fling themselves on her for cuddles etc. Probably because they feel totally unpressured and safe?

So I (and she would) totally agree with adults getting over themselves and being mature enough to realise it's not about their feelings of supposed 'rejection'.

MeMyselfandI2 · 08/08/2023 02:21

Turn this part around on her, “why don't you want to kiss nanny, you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss her".

’Why do you not respect X enough to let them choose?’
’You are making X feel uncomfortable, embarrassed, and hurt.’
’X is going to think you don’t respect their boundaries, choices, and bodily autonomy if you don’t listen to them.’
Etc.

SpanielsMatter · 08/08/2023 02:36

Even without the strained relationship, I feel strongly that body autonomy is so important. As soon as children are able they should be encouraged to only do what they feel comfortable doing. A civil hello or goodbye is just manners but when it comes to their bodies, it’s their choice and allowing their grandmother to blackmail them into physical touch/ kisses by saying her feeling of hurt is far more important than their right to body autonomy is setting them up for potentially dangerous relationships/ sexual encounters when they are older. You absolutely did the right thing interjecting and giving alternatives like a wave/ high five etc…

I am in my forties and remember cringy and horrible times being forced to kiss and embrace all relatives including those I didn’t know well, didn’t like and I just felt invaded. Teaching kids it’s totally normal to say no, they have your backing and their body is not to be used to make other people feel good is the best message you can send.

Explain to MIL that this is not about her or her feelings it’s about the emotional and physical safety of her darling grandchildren and doesn’t that take precedence?

Rudderneck · 08/08/2023 02:37

With children as young as two, they don't really have the self-control to hide their feelings about being affectionate, so I don't think it's useful to insist. If anything it will create more resistance.

So from that POV I think your MIL is being rather unwise. Little kids can just be shy.

That being said, many people avoid telling even older kids that it is polite to, say, kiss or hug nanny because it will make her feel happy and loved, because of an idea that it will make them vulnerable to abuse. There is not actually any evidence of that being the case, but it's a popular idea.

I don't think it's actually any more harmful than teaching kids to give a high five or shake hands - in many cultures kissing is the normal thing even when being introduced to someone totally new, just like a handshake. In our culture it's reserved for somewhat closer relationships, but young people are perfectly capable of learning which kinds of customary affections are appropriate in which situations.

Coyoacan · 08/08/2023 02:49

I'm probably older than your MIL and my mother was the one who told me never to force my child to hug or kiss anyone if she didn't want to because it can make them vulnerable to paedophiles.

FictionalCharacter · 08/08/2023 02:54

Yanbu. They shouldn't be forced to kiss anyone and she shouldn't be trying to emotionally blackmail them.
Have you posted about this before? There was another post where the GM used the same words - you'll make Nanny sad etc.

Bodily autonomy and boundaries always trump some relative's feeling that children must please them even if the child feels uncomfortable.

caringcarer · 08/08/2023 03:20

9/10 my DGS will run over to kiss me goodbye but occasionally one of them will do a high 5 instead. It's no big issue. If any of them have a cold or I do we just high 5. You can't force children to love you and the more you try to force them the less they will want to. Your MiL sounds very pushy.

GHxx · 08/08/2023 03:32

I nearly posted the same thing a few days ago. My MIL insists on kissing our 2 year old (and my husband) and will basically run round the living room for about 10 minutes while repeatedly saying bye to try to kiss him on the face. He doesn’t want to and it’s reaching the point that he’s making it very obvious he doesn’t want you kissing his face repeatedly. My husband asked her not to when he was born but for some reason she has started it again and I feel really awkward to say it when it’s just me that’s there. She also has barely any actual relationship with our child and sees him once every month or two so I can see him just dreading her trying to kiss him as he grows up if it continues. I’ve got my husband prepped to say it again 🤦🏻‍♀️

Totalwasteofpaper · 08/08/2023 03:35

Honestly... i came on to say yabu based on the title and i knew it would be re:In laws (prob mil)

However if she used those phrases verbatim
"you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss me" Yanbu and its worth explaining that to mil in a "vaguely empathetic but ultimately this is how it is" way

Sorry that your feelings were hurt but I'm glad you raised this.
candidly, i found your approach and emotional manipulation ridiculous too.
While we (DH & I) understand how lovely it is to get cuddles, it's more important to us that the children have bodily autonomy and learn they aren't responsible for regulating other peoples emotions.

For complete clarity next time you visit:
It IS okay to ask for a hug /kiss. If they decline, you can ask for a high five or fist bump and if they arent up for anything, go for a wave and "maybe we can hug next time".
it IS NOT okay to say "you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss me" or anything remotely similar. We will intervene if you insist on this.
If you can't respect this then its best we agree to always wave goodbye.

You can think what you like but our (my and DH's) position on this matter wont change.
Have a think and let me know how you want to proceed.

SheSaidHummingbird · 08/08/2023 03:39

Your daughter's response is fantastic. She's a bloody star. I would've told granny to f* off.

PopGoesTheWeaselYetAgain · 08/08/2023 04:02

I wouldn't find this a big deal, but her phoning you up and saying she was 'hurt' us kind of weird!

CrazyArmadilloLady · 08/08/2023 05:39

YANBU. Good call to wait for her to sober up calm down.

Might it be helpful to send her a link to something she can read, so that she can see it’s not just you being ‘weird’?

It depends on how confrontational you want to be in response, but you could say something along the lines of, ‘do you really want a kiss/cuddle from someone who doesn’t want to give you one?’

An article like this might help explain your position