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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Give nanny a kiss goodbye"

406 replies

coverp · 07/08/2023 23:40

Looking for impartial views on whether I am letting my generally strained relationship with MIL impact my response.

Whenever MIL sees the kids (aged 4 and 2), she tries to insist on big kisses and cuddles to say hello and goodbye. Sometimes they are cuddly kids and other times they are not - they interact with her well. I've always said "do you fancy a hug, high five or a wave?" And let them choose.

Today, MIL tried to insist on kisses - "why don't you want to kiss nanny, you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss her". To which I said "Enough". 2yo then said "how about a wave" and waved and blew a kiss. Which I thought was adorable.

Anyway, MIL has just texted saying "Hi, you really hurt me earlier. Its not too much to ask for the kids to cuddle their grandmother, your approach is ridiculous and they'll end up being rude brats".

I haven't replied, but am spitting. I know she'll have been drinking so definitely won't be engaging tonight. But sense check - AIBU to say they can choose to interact with her on their own terms?!

OP posts:
Sizzer40 · 09/08/2023 22:03

Older generations need to change the way they think about it, forcing affection onto another adult would be considered pretty creepy. Doing it to kids is even worse. It’s fairly common, or it was when I was a kid, but it’s pretty weird when you think about it.

Twentyfirstcenturymumma · 09/08/2023 22:04

Babdoc · 07/08/2023 23:43

It is very important for children - especially girls - to be taught that their boundaries and consent (or lack thereof) are important and will be respected.
Forcing young girls to accept being hugged or kissed against their will is basically grooming them.

Just as important for boys, they're vulnerable too

LolaSmiles · 09/08/2023 22:23

Just as important for boys, they're vulnerable too
Agree, and what sort of message does it send to boys if they're being told by adults that if you want physical contact and the other person doesn't, just guilt trip them or coerce them until they do what you want?

No children should be being taught to ignore their own feelings/boundary or to totally disregard someone else's boundaries.

Babdoc · 09/08/2023 22:38

I said it’s particularly important for girls because they are the ones being choked, slapped and anally raped by their porn sick teenage boyfriends.
Boys are not nearly as vulnerable, apart from the risk from adult gay paedophiles.
They are more likely to abuse girls’ boundaries than be abused themselves, but that is a separate issue that also needs addressed.

cavalier · 09/08/2023 22:44

YANBU
I’m blessed and proud to be paternal grandmother to 4 beautiful boys the eldest is 4 … i would never behave like this .. childish for one thing.
sounds like this lady could cut down her drinking as she seems to have no filter or reasoning skills sadly
life of far to short … it really is
can you smooth the waters now? … for all yours sakes … keep eye on it all and maybe she has other issues and being needy and insecure because she is stressed
just a thought
good luck … I hope the waters calm soon
I feel for you .. This sort of behaviour is very draining … we are all human at the end of the day .. but time is precious and I believe we should cherish times with our children and grandchildren…

Snugglemonkey · 09/08/2023 23:07

I would be so tempted to just let rip at her. It is so important that children are allowed to set their own boundaries. There is nothing rude about it. They are not there to service her needs. She can fuck right off with her guilting children, I would not tolerate it for a second.

Ohgollymolly · 09/08/2023 23:32

YANBU

Forced affection is awful, and something I am absolutely against.

My in-laws would insist and when my children started to refuse my MIL became very upset. Her problem though.

They also never ever hugged me until my SIL came on the scene and she’s an hugger. So now they want to hug me good bye. I’ve since said I don’t like hugs, of course, that upset them also. But even as an adult it’s hard to say no.

Dalriada35 · 10/08/2023 00:39

You’re not being unreasonable. This is more about yr MIL’s insecurities & attitude than it is about your parenting or your children’s affections for her.

Nanof8 · 10/08/2023 01:36

Not unreasonable. My kids (now adults) were never forced to hug or kiss anyone not even me if they didn't want too. My grands are being taught the same. Even the 18 month old gets asked and if she says no it's no.

Iwant2stayanon · 10/08/2023 04:31

Urghhh what disgusting behaviour from your MIL. You are not being unreasonable. Their bodies, their choice how they want to greet and say goodbye to her. Boundaries are very important. Consent is also important. Shocked that she felt entitled enough to text that, I’m afraid she would have gotten a swift piss off from me. But think your DH needs to tell her straight.

Bliss1221 · 10/08/2023 04:39

Woah your were right your children should know from early on they can say no. I never push my kids to be picked up or tell them tonkiss anyone either, if they wish to be picked up or sit on grandparents lap they will go to them without me prompting them to do it.
As for how to reply..perhaps you are better off not replying and asking your husband to explain his mum private space and why its important your child knows she can say no to hugging kissing etc if she dosent wish to take part in it

neelhtak · 10/08/2023 06:40

You were perfectly right. I would explain to the grandmother that you are teaching them safe, habits and practices from infancy, the obvious place to start. It's not all that different from regular handwashing, the Safe Cross Code, donning your bike helmet or not sticking objects into electrical sockets! I'll wager that many abusive situations began with a reluctant hug. This lady is herself a victim of the old culture, taking offence at the kiddies' wise and firm reaction. Perhaps her feelings were hurt, hence the "brats" comment. It's not to late for her to learn and even reinforce your family policy and practice.

ReginaPhalang3 · 10/08/2023 06:54

You are 100% in the right and doing the best thing for your children. If you ever doubt yourself imagine standing back and saying nothing whilst an adult tries to force them into a kiss they don’t want! She’s being completely unreasonable but hopefully if you continue to stick to boundaries (and your DH also agrees) she will get the message.

MikeRafone · 10/08/2023 07:03

I would reply

I will never force my children to kiss people or cuddle people. If they want to kiss and cuddle then thats fine but forcing them into these actions of affection is not ok. Im sure you'd rather the children were showing you genuine affection and not do so as they are under obligation. My job as a mother is to assist my children with their emotions, you'll need to sort out your own emotions.

H007 · 10/08/2023 07:26

Definitely not BU. Children should never be forced to hug or kiss.

SoThisIsSummer · 10/08/2023 07:30

@MikeRafone

LOVE that reply!

SnackSizeRaisin · 10/08/2023 07:33

ZippingZebra · 08/08/2023 08:03

You aren't being unreasonable. Personally it's not the body autonomy thing that bugs me, it's the manipulation I dislike.

I wonder if this would work...

Pick your son up and say:
"Nanny! Stop joking around! We all know love isn't just shown with hugs and kisses!

Then to your son: "Do you want to give nanny your love with a high five or a wave instead?"

And if he does coo and say
"That's so lovely! Nanny, do you feel all that love?" Or "Oh wow! you are sending nanny so much love!" "Do you want to send some more?" and encourage whatever he did again.

My hope is nanny joins in the game instead of making it about her! But she may be the type to say something like "Nanny would prefer a kiss." and you'd have to say something like "kisses are nice too but today we are sending our love by... And look how happy x is saying he loves you like this."

I dunno if it would work but it might be less offensive and lighthearted and a learning for both parties? It sounds like she "needs" to feel loved and just waving bye isn't doing it for her? She is the adult and should manage her emotions but her feelings are still feelings. Maybe framing it as sending love with a wave might make her feel warmer?!

That's totally ick and a load of rubbish. Saying goodbye is just a polite thing to do whether you like or hate someone. It's nothing to do with love. What if your child doesn't love his grandparents? Does that mean he doesn't need to say goodbye?

Children find their own ways of expressing love. Any form of enforced greeting whether that be a hug or a wave is not demonstration of anything other than social etiquette

If nanny wants a hug it's up to her to build the relationship with the child to the point where that naturally occurs. Being forced to kiss and hug unfamiliar grandparents is more likely to have the opposite effect, make the child dread seeing them.

SnackSizeRaisin · 10/08/2023 07:57

CrazyArmadilloLady · 09/08/2023 21:00

But if they don’t want to do it, they are being forced.

There are family members who I like, that I wouldn’t want to give a kiss on the cheek. A bug? Fine. Kiss - no.

There are plenty of other ways for children to show their affection and be polite in ways that don’t make them uncomfortable, and don’t send them negative messages.

We don’t ask or expect this of adults, why do some people expect it from children?

Show quote history

This is the point really, in British culture hugging and kissing are not normal social greeting etiquette, they are reserved for people you like, and even then lots of people don't bother. I reckon most adults are not kissing their own in laws goodbye or even their own parents in many cases, let alone more distant relatives.

In France or other countries where kissing is just a normal greeting and children see it all around them, and it's not attached to an expression of love, it's a completely different situation.

Rnh · 10/08/2023 08:04

Very different generation back then she most likely learnt that from her parents if you said “enough” abruptly then she could of got defensive to that maybe best communicate this with her respectfully and you might get a different response respect and communication is key on both sides but I understand letting the kids come to you if they want a hug as long as they say goodbye Which you said they do then that’s fair enough but I would suggest talk to her about might be a different outcome if not then let your husband deal with her

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 10/08/2023 08:24

I hate being touched as does my son. This is our idea of hell and unacceptable.

Saschka · 10/08/2023 08:29

DS has to stop what he is doing and come and say goodbye - that’s how I prevent him growing up to be a rude brat.

How he says goodbye is up to him - I don’t say goodbye in the same way to him, my DM, my next door neighbour or my coworker, and it’s fine for him to have different levels of affection.

SunnieShine · 10/08/2023 08:36

I think the OP is right.

But I also think the child has to accept it if a family member/friend doesn't want to hug or kiss them.

It cuts both ways.

MrsSkylerWhite · 10/08/2023 08:50

Jonniecomelately · Yesterday 19:05
Would you be OK with them never giving you a cuddle? She's their grandmother, not a random adult.”

Doesn’t matter who she is. If they don’t want to, end of. That applies to everyone, parents included. Sometimes, children just don’t want to and their wishes must be respected.

Would you be happy as an adult if someone forced their unwanted physical actions on you?

MrsSkylerWhite · 10/08/2023 08:53

Jonniecomelately · Yesterday 19:54
I'm not talking about forcing. Its about teachng them what is and isn't appropriate. Giving granny a kiss on the cheek - yes. Other stuff - no.

They are not the same”

You’re just not getting the point. What is appropriate is up to the individual child to decide, not their parents or grandparents. Or do you not believe that you ought to respect their wishes just because they are young and powerless?

midlifemaid · 10/08/2023 09:15

Hi, I think that there’s middle ground here. I think children should be taught manners and to consider the feelings of others in their choices, which I’m sure you are doing, however, your MIL making your DC feel responsible for her feelings is completely inappropriate and unacceptable. It makes me so mad how many in the older generations cannot seem to grasp how self-centred and thoughtless this is. That said, my relationship with my DM was very toxic and emotionally unhealthy, because she made me responsible for her emotions (which were pretty much always sad/angry/feeling neglected/unloved) so I might be slightly influenced by that. But, it is important, you could reiterate that they love her very much and will show that love when they feel like it, much better than because they are instructed.