Page 13 | "Give nanny a kiss goodbye"

coverp · 2023-08-07T22:40:34+00:00

Looking for impartial views on whether I am letting my generally strained relationship with MIL impact my response. Whenever MIL sees the kids (aged 4 and 2), she tries to insist on big kisses and cuddles to say hello and goodbye. Sometimes they are cuddly kids and other times they are not - they interact with her well. I've always said "do you fancy a hug, high five or a wave?" And let them choose. Today, MIL tried to insist on kisses - "why don't you want to kiss nanny, you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss her". To which I said "Enough". 2yo then said "how about a wave" and waved and blew a kiss. Which I thought was adorable. Anyway, MIL has just texted saying "Hi, you really hurt me earlier. Its not too much to ask for the kids to cuddle their grandmother, your approach is ridiculous and they'll end up being rude brats". I haven't replied, but am spitting. I know she'll have been drinking so definitely won't be engaging tonight. But sense check - AIBU to say they can choose to interact with her on their own terms?!

Saywhanow · 09/08/2023 20:32

Our rule is - kids have to say hello, and goodbye. They also have to return a handshake - because that's a life skill.

I also model the behaviour infront of family. I will say 'can Mummy have a kiss' and if my toddler says 'no' (which they do more often than not) - I say 'ok then' and I drop it. I've done this deliberately infront of family members so they can see the rule applies to us as much as it applies to everyone else.

And it has worked. My Mum has always been a bit of a 'they are so rude' type with my nephew and nieces, her other Grandkids when they wouldn't kiss/cuddle goodbye etc. But as she watches me approach this differently - she's followed suit, because I think what family see in this situation is that you're making it about not kissing 'them' - rather than - the child choosing when/who they want to kiss. My Mum watching her grandchild say no to kissing their own Mum and me the Mum being like 'ah well fair enough' about it - means she ain't got a leg to stand on demanding one herself. And it was a bit of a penny drop moment. It stopped being about her and being about the child being able to say no. She just got it and now she'll do the same - can Nan have a kiss? No? OK then. She doesn't take it personally, is what I'm saying, and we haven't had the same issue.

Thefsm · 09/08/2023 20:35

Not helpful, but if it were me I’d go passive aggressive and text back “sorry that you were raised to believe you had to have physical contact with anyone who asked for it. That is considered abusive these days and my kids have body autonomy so it is up to them who and when they hug or kiss people. Frankly, I thought it was pretty bratty behavior to try and guilt trip your grandchildren like that.

hiredandsqueak · 09/08/2023 20:38

I'm Granny, dgs isn't a cuddly child, when he says hello or goodbye I ask if I can ruffle his hair as he likes that. If he said no I would respect his wishes. With others he gives a high five or a wave, dd would never ask him to hug or kiss or be hugged or kissed by anybody.

BetterWithPockets · 09/08/2023 20:40

RomeoMcFlourish · 07/08/2023 23:42

Not unreasonable at all. Well done for doing the right thing for your children.

This x 100…

BellaVida22 · 09/08/2023 20:42

Oh god that’s awful. I still remember my feelings of revulsion at being forced to kiss my aunt’s chilly cheek. A high five would have been so much better.

Jacesmum1977 · 09/08/2023 20:43

If she didn’t make such a fuss, they may want to be more affectionate toward her 🤷🏻‍♀️

BetterWithPockets · 09/08/2023 20:48

watcherintherye · 07/08/2023 23:48

It is very important for children - especially girls - to be taught that their boundaries and consent (or lack thereof) are important and will be respected.

Why especially girls? Children of either sex are equally vulnerable.

Do you really need to ask this question? Yes, as children, girls and boys are probably equally at risk. As adults, men (especially young men) are far more at risk of physical assault from other men. Women are far more at risk of sexual assault, primarily from men. But I’m assuming that can’t come as a surprise.

Anothernamethesamegame · 09/08/2023 20:51

My parents are similar with my kids. I find it quite pathetic actually having to manipulate and guilt a child so you can get your own need for physical affection met.

Like others here I insist my children are polite by acknowledging someone arriving and leaving, but they don’t have to kiss and cuddle.
occassionally my dad has picked up my daughter when she didn’t want it and last time she screamed, Pushed him and said “get Off”. I told him she said no to being picked up so why did he pick her up and I most certainly didn’t tell her off for shouting at him.

Op I’d chat to your DH first but Inwoiod be tempted to reply with something along the lines of…
”I will always insist the children are polite to you and say goodbye, however I will not insist they kiss and cuddle you if they do not want to. I will not allow anyone to force or manipulate them in to kissing or cuddling when they don’t want to. There is no discussion on this matter and I won’t be replying to any more messages on the subject”.

If you DH struggle with his own mum you may have to coach and support him on how to respond when she tries badgering him.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 09/08/2023 21:00

Jonniecomelately · 09/08/2023 19:54

I'm not talking about forcing. Its about teachng them what is and isn't appropriate. Giving granny a kiss on the cheek - yes. Other stuff - no.

They are not the same.

But if they don’t want to do it, they are being forced.

There are family members who I like, that I wouldn’t want to give a kiss on the cheek. A bug? Fine. Kiss - no.

There are plenty of other ways for children to show their affection and be polite in ways that don’t make them uncomfortable, and don’t send them negative messages.

We don’t ask or expect this of adults, why do some people expect it from children?

Spinninsweetness · 09/08/2023 21:02

You're absolutely not being u at all! I remember growing up having to kiss uncles/aunts/grannies, etc. Times have changed, they do what suits them. Show her this thread too!

YourWinter · 09/08/2023 21:04

OP I haven’t RTFT yet but I absolutely agree with you.

My ex always used to say “Give grandma a kiss then” when saying goodbye. I used to say they did not have to kiss, nor tolerate ANY physical contact that they hadn’t chosen to initiate. Be polite, certainly, thank grandma for lunch or whatever, try to make eye contact and smile. But never, never tell my children they must hug or kiss anyone, no matter who they are.

Mine are all in their 30s now, with young children of their own. Eldest is single parent to a 6 year old. I see them fairly often and she always tells him to kiss me goodbye, I always ask her not to, and assure him he need not. He’s affectionate and hugs me lots when DD isn’t there, I happily accept hugs on his initiation. I’m relieved that the others don’t push their children to kiss.

I’m not in the camp of asking a newborn’s permission to change their nappy but a child should absolutely have autonomy over their bodies, and kisses should be willingly offered and joyfully received, never a duty to satisfy eg a grandparent or aunt who has no right what’s to expect it.

Do those selfish, demanding adults expect you, their own adult offspring, to tolerate kisses or physical contact you didn’t want?

JudgeRudy · 09/08/2023 21:08

There's 2 issues here. Is your approach correct? Yes, l believe children should not feel powerless simply because adults are bigger. They should own their own bodies. Well done. BTW I'm assuming this isn't your approach it's ours.
In response to the text, firstly I'd run it by your husband and see if he would prefer to speak directly with his mum but if you're both going with a text reply I'd say something along the lines of..

I'm sorry you felt hurt because DC did not want to kiss you. It's her choice and I'm not prepared to bully her to appease anyone. This is the approach we've chosen to take and we've no blans to change. So far ts working well and there's no evidence of anyone becoming a rude brat.
If she replies again with a Yeah but...I'd say
There's no more to discuss. We've decided how we want to parent and our hope is you'll be able to respect our approach as it won't be changing.

BTW, l have a similar approach to enforced sharing. Whilst I encouraged my children to share and to 'play nicely' with other kids, I never forced it. Imagine if you OH brought his friends wife round and let her try on your clothes!

JudgeRudy · 09/08/2023 21:10

Thefsm · 09/08/2023 20:35

Not helpful, but if it were me I’d go passive aggressive and text back “sorry that you were raised to believe you had to have physical contact with anyone who asked for it. That is considered abusive these days and my kids have body autonomy so it is up to them who and when they hug or kiss people. Frankly, I thought it was pretty bratty behavior to try and guilt trip your grandchildren like that.

That's not passive aggressive though is it?

Nily4567 · 09/08/2023 21:12

She’s making it about herself and not the kids - 100% not being unreasonable

i really hope we all grow out if that conditional love/manipulative stuff with kids, it is so wrong 🤦‍♀️

stacyvaron · 09/08/2023 21:12

You aren't being unreasonable, if that's the way you and your husband would like to raise your children. Perhaps a calm, detailed explanation of why you are doing what you're doing is in order. It's much different than it used to be and it seems rediculous to her. If that doesn't work, then it's respect the guidelines we set or don't spend time with the children, but decide if it's a hill you want to die on.

HMW1906 · 09/08/2023 21:15

My oldest is 2y8m, he’s still at an age where he loves to give kisses and cuddles when we leave and he’s never refused when asked yet but as soon as he says no I won’t be forcing him to do something he doesn’t want to do. Your MIL is being unreasonable and I’m expecting the same from my in-laws as soon as my son refuses.

FancyFanny · 09/08/2023 21:40

Meh, offering a cheek for a quick kiss is no big deal- it's a polite commonly accepted greeting amongst family, not a violation of your body!

Daisybuttercup12345 · 09/08/2023 21:41

HowDoYouSolveAProblemLikeMariaa · 08/08/2023 00:14

why don't you want to kiss scout leader Dave/uncle Bob/ father bigly/Mr saville, you're making Dave/uncle Bob/ father bigly/Mr saville feel so sad, Dave/uncle Bob/ father bigly/Mr saville is going to think you don't love him if you don't kiss him.

Of course you are in the right op and to be quite Frank I'm fed up of having to teach consent to Ok Groomers

Granny is a groomer?

CrazyArmadilloLady · 09/08/2023 21:42

FancyFanny · 09/08/2023 21:40

Meh, offering a cheek for a quick kiss is no big deal- it's a polite commonly accepted greeting amongst family, not a violation of your body!

…and being expected to do the kissing of the old cheek?

monsteramunch · 09/08/2023 21:44

FancyFanny · 09/08/2023 21:40

Meh, offering a cheek for a quick kiss is no big deal- it's a polite commonly accepted greeting amongst family, not a violation of your body!

Offering a cheek for a kiss, if you want to, is perfectly normal.

Demanding a child kiss you, when they don't want to, is weird and intrusive.

What does someone get out of a child kissing / hugging them when they don't want to?

That's what we are talking about here. Unwanted physical contact.

It shouldn't be a big deal or controversial or rude for anyone, of any age, to say they don't want to hug or kiss someone else.

monsteramunch · 09/08/2023 21:46

Demanding a child kiss you, when they don't want to, is weird and intrusive.

To be clear, so is kissing a child who doesn't want you to.

It's really weird to want a child to accept physical contact that you know they don't want.

Why on earth are so many people so passionate about making a child hug or kiss them when the child says no / wriggles away?

It's really troubling.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 09/08/2023 21:48

It’s so weird. And this, from women.

Unfortunately, understanding a little more why so many men are perfectly OK having sex with women they fully know are not into it.

This thread is actually a really insidious eye-opener.

HAF1119 · 09/08/2023 21:48

I personally would say firmly at some point that parents choose how to parent their children - and in this instance you have to insist against emotional blackmail being used if your children don't want a cuddle, you'd like them to be affectionate through choice not through being forced emotionally - or any other way. She's doing the same in her language to you, do what I say or your children will be spoilt brats.

My sons grandparents are all very respectful, on occasion my boy doesn't want a cuddle and they blow a kiss, have a wave, very occasionally they get nothing. Majority of the time he chooses to give them big cuddles and climbs on them. I honestly think being open to contact and affection without being overbearing has factored majorly into the fact he actually wants the affection. For example he has a slightly older friend who asks for hugs and tries if he says no and he actively avoids ever being too close to him, it certainly can have the opposite effect if pushed into hugs!

Toomuchtrouble4me · 09/08/2023 21:59

I think the hug for grandma and you giving a 2yr old a choice of high fives and waves is just a generational thing and not a big issue.
her text however, is shitty, and IS a big issue. I would just reply ‘my kids, my choice, if you want to discuss this without being rude then Dh and I will do so’.

SyncopatedRhythm · 09/08/2023 22:00

Saywhanow · 09/08/2023 20:32

Our rule is - kids have to say hello, and goodbye. They also have to return a handshake - because that's a life skill.

I also model the behaviour infront of family. I will say 'can Mummy have a kiss' and if my toddler says 'no' (which they do more often than not) - I say 'ok then' and I drop it. I've done this deliberately infront of family members so they can see the rule applies to us as much as it applies to everyone else.

And it has worked. My Mum has always been a bit of a 'they are so rude' type with my nephew and nieces, her other Grandkids when they wouldn't kiss/cuddle goodbye etc. But as she watches me approach this differently - she's followed suit, because I think what family see in this situation is that you're making it about not kissing 'them' - rather than - the child choosing when/who they want to kiss. My Mum watching her grandchild say no to kissing their own Mum and me the Mum being like 'ah well fair enough' about it - means she ain't got a leg to stand on demanding one herself. And it was a bit of a penny drop moment. It stopped being about her and being about the child being able to say no. She just got it and now she'll do the same - can Nan have a kiss? No? OK then. She doesn't take it personally, is what I'm saying, and we haven't had the same issue.

"And it has worked. My Mum has always been a bit of a 'they are so rude' type with my nephew and nieces, her other Grandkids when they wouldn't kiss/cuddle goodbye etc. But as she watches me approach this differently - she's followed suit, because I think what family see in this situation is that you're making it about not kissing 'them' - rather than - the child choosing when/who they want to kiss. My Mum watching her grandchild say no to kissing their own Mum and me the Mum being like 'ah well fair enough' about it - means she ain't got a leg to stand on demanding one herself. And it was a bit of a penny drop moment. It stopped being about her and being about the child being able to say no. She just got it and now she'll do the same - can Nan have a kiss? No? OK then. She doesn't take it personally, is what I'm saying, and we haven't had the same issue."

That's really well thought out!

As you say, nobody can then take umbrage and claim it's rude to them personally, when the child's own parent(s) also leave the decision up to said child.