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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Give nanny a kiss goodbye"

406 replies

coverp · 07/08/2023 23:40

Looking for impartial views on whether I am letting my generally strained relationship with MIL impact my response.

Whenever MIL sees the kids (aged 4 and 2), she tries to insist on big kisses and cuddles to say hello and goodbye. Sometimes they are cuddly kids and other times they are not - they interact with her well. I've always said "do you fancy a hug, high five or a wave?" And let them choose.

Today, MIL tried to insist on kisses - "why don't you want to kiss nanny, you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss her". To which I said "Enough". 2yo then said "how about a wave" and waved and blew a kiss. Which I thought was adorable.

Anyway, MIL has just texted saying "Hi, you really hurt me earlier. Its not too much to ask for the kids to cuddle their grandmother, your approach is ridiculous and they'll end up being rude brats".

I haven't replied, but am spitting. I know she'll have been drinking so definitely won't be engaging tonight. But sense check - AIBU to say they can choose to interact with her on their own terms?!

OP posts:
NatashaDancing · 09/08/2023 19:21

Blueblell · 09/08/2023 19:05

I think she sounds manipulative in your other responses and you should explain to your DC that they don’t have to kiss nanny if they don’t want to. We always used to kiss our Nan goodbye and yes it was expected and it is a generational thing. People are more aware of boundaries these days and that is important. I think unfortunately it is necessary to teach kids that they don’t have to let people touch them to be polite. but I am torn on this as I also think it is nice for my kids to give Nan a kiss goodbye.

My late teens always kiss my mum goodbye and I think that is a nice thing for them and they do it voluntarily and don’t see her so often these days. However yes I probably instilled that in them as I also give my mum a kiss goodbye and some may say it is therefore not really voluntary. My sister who has young children and is quite a bit younger than me (15 yrs) doesn’t insist her kids kiss anyone goodbye and sometimes they do sometimes they don’t, but either way it is they who instigate it. I think that is the right way.

I think given she is slightly manipulative you need to innoculate your children against the manipulation. Tell them we love nanny and she is a lovely person but nanny is from a different generation and has different ideas about things than me and dad.

How old is "Nanny"? And what generation are we talking about?

I'm 64 and adults asking small children for kisses and cuddles gives me the creeps.

monsteramunch · 09/08/2023 19:25

Jonniecomelately · 09/08/2023 19:05

Would you be OK with them never giving you a cuddle? She's their grandmother, not a random adult.

It's not 'never' though. It's just 'no' when the child is uncomfortable and doesn't want to kiss or cuddle someone, whether a parent or grandparent.

Would you enjoy hugging or kissing someone who has said no / tried to wriggle away / has made it clear they don't want to hug or kiss you? Don't you think it's utterly bizarre to want to force a child to do those things, through a telling off or in OP's MILs case guilt tripping, against their will?

kazlau · 09/08/2023 19:29

Consent is a huge thing these days with our DGC. I never force any of my 5 (12, 10, 5, 4, 3) DGC. Some days I’m smothered in hugs and kisses and other days I get a wave and a goodbye. Children must feel able to refuse affection from adults that isn’t their bidding. The power must be theirs. It will keep them safe.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 09/08/2023 19:34

Jonniecomelately · 09/08/2023 19:05

Would you be OK with them never giving you a cuddle? She's their grandmother, not a random adult.

And he was my grandfather,not a random stranger which is why I couldn't say no.

cheddercherry · 09/08/2023 19:42

Going off your other examples of her guilt tripping she doesn’t actually seemed as bothered about the affection itself and more the power trip she gets from demanding attention. It’s not at all about the kids and their wishes is it, it’s about control.

I hope your DH backs you up when he’s home, and good on you for sticking up for your kids.

The thing I don’t get with people saying “oh but they’re family” is a) just because your family doesn’t make you not a dick and you don’t just deserve love or to invade someone’s space because you’re related. Secondly kids are generally more affectionate by nature, if they like you and want to, they’ll hold hands/ hug/ high five whatever WITHOUT being told. My DS has never been instructed or commanded to kiss or cuddle his grandparents, but guess what. He does. Of his own accord. People need to chill, I’m sure OP isn’t against her kids ever coming into physical touch with their grandparents, just not crazy about them being emotionally blackmailed into doing so.

Geordiebabe85 · 09/08/2023 19:42

I'm a teacher. We teach kids in school that they do not have to kiss / cuddle ANYONE including family. They need to learn about consent from an early age. You are 100% in the right. How does a child distinguish between grandma wanting a kiss and uncle pervert (not that I'm saying there are perverts in your family) saying they have to do dodgy things

Letitgonowgr · 09/08/2023 19:46

My 5 year old really struggles with saying hello and goodbye. I would always encourage and say give nanny a cuddle etc. I now know it’s better to say “do you want to give a cuddle or a high five or wave?” And if none of the above I just say “maybe next time”. My MIL always wants to kiss him and it annoys me. She isn’t close in the slightest and doesn’t make conversation really but insists on kissing.. Eurgh.
I’d reply and say “forcing him to kiss/cuddle will make him do it even less, let him come to you in his own time”.

JenWillsiam · 09/08/2023 19:47

SherbetDips · 08/08/2023 17:34

My friends mother in law died two weeks ago, her little one will never have a hug or kiss from her granny again.

I’m 100% in agreement about not forcing kids or hug and kiss adults etc

but this is their Grandmother and it’s a special relationship they only have for so long.

Forcing physical affection really is never ok.

JenWillsiam · 09/08/2023 19:48

Jonniecomelately · 09/08/2023 19:05

Would you be OK with them never giving you a cuddle? She's their grandmother, not a random adult.

Where has anyone said anything about never cuddling her? And if they don’t want to cuddle them ever is forcing it really the appropriate response?

Tigger1895 · 09/08/2023 19:52

I have a 2 year old granddaughter living with me, some days I get cuddled to death and others I’m lucky to get a high 5. I never pressure her as I’m an adult and know there’s days I just want to be left alone. Your MiL is the issue.

Redfin17 · 09/08/2023 19:53

Not unreasonable at all but she’s a different generation with different expectations - my mum will ask for hugs and kisses too (though she wouldn’t try to guilt the kids into it or tell me she was ‘hurt’ if they refused!). Doesn’t make her right at all - I take the same line as you - but if you haven’t already I would just calmly explain why you take this approach with your children and that it’s something you do in all such situations: consistency is key and you can’t make exceptions! If she doesn’t like that then that’s her issue - you have nothing to feel bad about!

FoodFann · 09/08/2023 19:53

YANBU. Your MIL is BVU! What weirdo wants to kiss squirming children against their wishes? Maybe text her that, as your response. Or better yet, block her. You sound like a bloody great Mum OP, good for you teaching your kids to stick up for themselves so young

Jonniecomelately · 09/08/2023 19:54

I'm not talking about forcing. Its about teachng them what is and isn't appropriate. Giving granny a kiss on the cheek - yes. Other stuff - no.

They are not the same.

CalamityCat · 09/08/2023 19:55

"Hi MIL, I am sad that you felt hurt because the kids didn't cuddle you. Sometimes they feel like having cuddles and kisses and sometimes they don't. That is OK. It is not OK for them to feel pressured to cuddle and kiss people when they don't feel like it. This includes parents too. This approach allows them to make their own decisions and will not result in them being rude brats. With having options to high five or wave they are not encouraged to ignore people but choose how to greet them or say goodbye. It makes the kisses and cuddles more special because it is their choice."

royalwatch · 09/08/2023 19:55

I would reply

Oh gosh! Don’t give it another thought. He’s two, he’s a headstrong toddler and i cannot make him kiss someone if he doesn’t want to but that doesn’t mean he will be like it next time .

monsteramunch · 09/08/2023 19:57

Jonniecomelately · 09/08/2023 19:54

I'm not talking about forcing. Its about teachng them what is and isn't appropriate. Giving granny a kiss on the cheek - yes. Other stuff - no.

They are not the same.

But what if a child really doesn't want to kiss someone on the cheek on demand?

Why should they be made to feel they are naughty or mean if they don't want to kiss someone on the cheek on demand?

What on earth is the recipient getting out of a kiss from someone who doesn't want to kiss them?

Really step back and think about it logically. Isn't it utterly bizarre to pressure a child to have physical contact they don't want to have? Regardless of who the recipient is?

Lavender14 · 09/08/2023 20:00

Oh I'd be beyond raging. Bodily autonomy is SO crucial to teach kids right from the get go. It's their best tool to safeguard themselves from abuse and since we know the majority of abuse is from people children already know its essential that starts at home and applies to all family and is consistent.

I would ring her to be honest, say that you got her message and you wanted to let her know that you are teaching your child that their personal space should be respected by all people including adults and they don't need to have physical contact with anyone if they don't want to. I'd say that you understand that she wanted a hug or kiss but it's not acceptable for her to make the children responsible for her feelings and you'd appreciate it if she could be mindful of that going forwards. I'd also say that she is never to refer to your children as rude brats for listening to their instinct and standing up for themselves ever again.

But if you think she'd listen to your dh and I'd would be better coming from him then I'd get him to be extremely direct with her.

I think it's brilliant that you cut in and modelled to your children that they are important and deserve respect. She is completely out of order and that message was just the icing on the cake, I'd really struggle with her after that.

Nails1x1x · 09/08/2023 20:00

Hate this!! They can choose how to say hello and goodbye as long as not totally ignoring a high 5 or a wave or a simple bye is sufficient. Forcing them to give a physical hug or kiss will only make them respond with a no the next time…. You are right to be annoyed by this.

Lavender14 · 09/08/2023 20:03

Jonniecomelately · 09/08/2023 19:54

I'm not talking about forcing. Its about teachng them what is and isn't appropriate. Giving granny a kiss on the cheek - yes. Other stuff - no.

They are not the same.

@Jonniecomelately And what if their 'appropriate ' grandpa/ uncle/ older cousin etc etc is actually the same person who makes them feel uncomfortable and isn't safe to them. Teaching your child that it's appropriate to kiss someone who they don't want to because they are family and therefore appropriate is still teaching them that a) family can't be unsafe when we know they can and b) they should ignore their own discomfort to meet the needs of the adult and c) they are responsible for the emotions of adults around them which they are not. Most children are abused by 'appropriate' friends or family members and this is how grooming starts.

Louoby · 09/08/2023 20:05

She is free to ask however; if they don't want to then she should accept it and appreciate a high five or wave with grace. Not all children want to cuddle and kiss all the time. They may want to one day but not the next. I remember having to kiss and cuddle my grandparents, I hated it.
I would reply saying you are teaching your children they can say no to physical contact if they don't want it. Tell her they are not being rude if they say goodbye and wave, she needs to appreciate your approach to your parenting. They are young and are They aren't snubbing her by saying no to a kiss if they are getting a wave

DelHenney · 09/08/2023 20:05

OP, A lot of the younger women at work are teaching their toddlers and young children to ‘blow kisses’ which seems a perfect solution. It looks cute, shows affection and allows them to keep their distance if they want to.
Your kids Nanny is being the brat here.. playing up cos she didn’t get her own way! Stand firm, you are doing the right thing!

SashaPearce · 09/08/2023 20:07

CalamityCat · 09/08/2023 19:55

"Hi MIL, I am sad that you felt hurt because the kids didn't cuddle you. Sometimes they feel like having cuddles and kisses and sometimes they don't. That is OK. It is not OK for them to feel pressured to cuddle and kiss people when they don't feel like it. This includes parents too. This approach allows them to make their own decisions and will not result in them being rude brats. With having options to high five or wave they are not encouraged to ignore people but choose how to greet them or say goodbye. It makes the kisses and cuddles more special because it is their choice."

This is great. I’d copy and paste

LordC · 09/08/2023 20:27

Not unreasonable. Kids should be able to interact as they please. "Nanny" is the rude brat.

AlwaysJumping · 09/08/2023 20:29

Fuck no!

Yoi are being an awesome parent and this is the hill to die on. I’m so glad people are changing to « say goodbye, you can wave/hug or hi five, you choose » Otherwise we really are teaching children that they have to submit to adults affection if uncomfortable and that’s what abusers thrive on.

AlwaysJumping · 09/08/2023 20:30

Lavender14 · 09/08/2023 20:03

@Jonniecomelately And what if their 'appropriate ' grandpa/ uncle/ older cousin etc etc is actually the same person who makes them feel uncomfortable and isn't safe to them. Teaching your child that it's appropriate to kiss someone who they don't want to because they are family and therefore appropriate is still teaching them that a) family can't be unsafe when we know they can and b) they should ignore their own discomfort to meet the needs of the adult and c) they are responsible for the emotions of adults around them which they are not. Most children are abused by 'appropriate' friends or family members and this is how grooming starts.

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This in spades/bucketfuls.