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Flexible working revoked - help!!

410 replies

Tiredofbeingtired1 · 05/08/2023 07:59

Looking for a sounding board for a problem I'm having at work. Not sure what to do really...

So, I had a baby and returned after a 9 month maternity leave, but when my son was 5 months old, I discussed my return to work with my boss (male).

(I work as a PA for two people who own and run the company)

I asked to return to work 5 days a week, but to work 2 days from home and also if I could leave at 4.30pm instead of my contracted finish of 5pm in order to pick up my son from nursery. I was told that none of this was a problem and that I didn't need to be in when my boss wasn't in (he also worked 3 days a week in the office).

So I returned to work with this set up and did absolutely everything to make this work, which included working through lunch breaks and responding to emails from 6am-10pm 7 days a week.

After 8 months of this being in place, I was told (in the middle of the office, not privately) that they were going to need to ask me to return to the office 4 days a week as they couldn't give me something they weren't giving to the rest of the staff. I was assured that this had nothing to do with my performance as they know I'm working all the time, but purely to do with what other people in the office are allowed.

I had many discussions with them about the impact of this on me, and that it would cost me almost an extra £400 in childcare costs per month, to which I was told effectively that if I can't afford to have kids, I shouldn't have them.

At this point, two other women were having their working from home revoked, but they had had it for 11 and 14 years, and their children were in secondary school by this point.

In the discussions for this, my boss (female) had suggested to me that on the extra day I was being asked to work in the office, I could leave early. This was purely her idea and was even suggesting around lunchtime.

After all my protests, I was told they would get back to me...however 5 months later nobody had. As this was being requested to start in September, I approached my boss (female) last week to discuss it before my holiday, and her holiday. She seemed surprised, but thankful that I had put the wheels in motion and was making this happening and agreed that it had kind of been forgotten about (not by me, I can assure you!). When I then raised her idea of leaving early on the extra day in the office, she didn't seem to recall this conversation and actually seemed quite annoyed by it, asking "how early?". I suggested 3.30pm instead of 4.30pm, and as I could see that this request wasn't going down well, I suggested it be for the first 3 weeks to help my son settle in (as this also coincides with him moving to preschool).

She then said that we need to review my leaving at 4.30pm on other days, and would I be willing to leave at 5pm (my contracted time) instead. I said that it wasn't a case of being willing, but that if I left at that time, I wouldn't be able to make it to the nursery before they shut. She seemed in disbelief that it would take me that long to get home, but I pointed out that whilst Google might suggest it is an hour, that is if I hit all my connections and there is no traffic. In practice, this is never the case, and it it always takes me around 1 hour 20 mins.

Her reasoning for asking me to leave at 5pm was again, for parity across the office, but also in case her or my other boss need something urgent between 4.30-5pm. Whilst I understand this, in practice I don't think this is actually the case, as all day I am asked for very little and I am the proactive one asking if they need things all the time. I can't believe that something urgent would be regularly happening in the last 30 mins of the day.

She also said that if they finish a meeting after 4.30pm and I am gone, they might need something, and it's not fair on other members of staff as it puts more pressure on them. Whilst this is true, I have been back through the diaries and in the 201 days I have worked back in the office, they have had meetings that have gone beyond 4.30pm 18 times. Also, they have never had someone come to the office for a meeting that starts after 4.30pm.

Therefore I feel that this isn't a reflection of what actually happens. I can't believe that they ask for very little all day, but in that last 30 mins something urgent comes up. She also acknowledged that I am on email my whole journey home, but it's if something happens that I am needed in person. She accepted the fact I work through my lunch, and from early morning until late evening on emails, but that it was not about total hours worked.

For context, my company are very anti flexible working. I joined 3 days before lockdown in 2020, and went on maternity leave in July 2021, so had spent a massive amount of my employment working from home. They are on a drive to get people back to the office and don't want anyone working from home. They recently conducted a staff survey, and in that almost every member of the office requested more flexibility with working from home. Therefore they are begrudgingly reviewing it, but it seems they are missing the point that flexible working doesn't have to be the exact same conditions for everyone and that it is a case by case scenario.

I am unsure as to whether I am being unreasonable, or if not, how hard to push on this - especially given that I was told by my boss (male) that he asked if he could get rid of me when I told him I was pregnant!!

We are a small team and don't have an official HR department. We recently just got a freelance HR person in, but I'm unsure as to how much I trust them yet. Also, in my capacity as a PA I work very closely with my bosses and maintaining a good relationship is important. I'm not trying to rock the boat or get special privileges, but it's hard to make things work when the agreement keeps changing. I returned to work based on certain conditions and I set my life up around them.

Any advice would be so gratefully received as it is keeping me up at night!

Thank you!

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 05/08/2023 08:20

Molehillminnie · 05/08/2023 08:16

This has unfair dismissal and tribunal written all over it. Contact pregnant then screwed, OP.

What is it specifically that makes you think "unfair dismissal"?

weightymatters73 · 05/08/2023 08:21

You MUST have childcare in place while working from home, so be wary about telling them it will "cost you extra" as technically it shouldn't apart from an extra bit for commuting....

I suspect this is where it has come from, people think it is allowable to be home and working and young kids not looked after but it really isn't.

2reefsin30knots · 05/08/2023 08:23

So when you WFH you also look after your DC at home? TBH, I don't think that is OK.

ChateauMargaux · 05/08/2023 08:24

Can your partner help with nursery pick up on some days? You go in early and leave early on 2 / 3 he does the same on the other days?

SpainToday · 05/08/2023 08:24

weightymatters73 · 05/08/2023 08:21

You MUST have childcare in place while working from home, so be wary about telling them it will "cost you extra" as technically it shouldn't apart from an extra bit for commuting....

I suspect this is where it has come from, people think it is allowable to be home and working and young kids not looked after but it really isn't.

This

sadaboutmycat · 05/08/2023 08:26

LolaSmiles · 05/08/2023 08:16

I had many discussions with them about the impact of this on me, and that it would cost me almost an extra £400 in childcare costs per month, to which I was told effectively that if I can't afford to have kids, I shouldn't have them
They're out of order for the comments about not affording childcare, but equally if you going in the office two days a week is costing you £400 extra that sounds like you've not had childcare in place whilst working.
Most people I know with WFH have an expectation that WFH staff have childcare, not that they're using WFH to so half a job at work whilst they look after their children.

OP says "effectively told", not that this was actually said. They may have said something more like "your ability to pay your childcare costs are not our responsibility" which would be perfectly reasonable but perceived the way OP did.

magicalkitty · 05/08/2023 08:27

If you are looking after a baby while wfh, I don't blame your employer for asking you back to the office.

Spinningjenny23 · 05/08/2023 08:28

Lots of employers suddenly seem to be practising panicked presenteeism right now - where they're trying to re-establish control over employees by demanding they're back in the office more regularly than is actually necessary, given the technology we now have, to do the job. Lots of them are going to lose excellent staff because of it. I'd really be looking for another job.

And sorry to be blunt about this, but your "excellent" relationship with your bosses sounds very one sided to me, they've shown you who they really are.

CrapBucket · 05/08/2023 08:28

You are talented and organised and hard working- for the love of God, leave this antiquated company behind and find something that appreciates you!!

My friend is a virtual PA which is a growing area and would suit you much more.

FlamingoQueen · 05/08/2023 08:28

Are you able to find a job nearer to home? (I know this is often easier than said!).

BatheInTheLight · 05/08/2023 08:29

Maybe they see your requests as you being entitled. 'who does she think she is to dictate terms to us, her employers?'

I echo past posters, you need to leave as they are stuck in the middle ages.

VictoriaVenkman · 05/08/2023 08:30

I'd look for another role. Flexible working should be on a case by case basis but it sounds as if you are not always in when they need you and, as a PA, you do need to be there if needed.

CattingAbout · 05/08/2023 08:30

Check out Civil Service Jobs website, the civil service are great for flexible working.

Crochetablanket · 05/08/2023 08:30

I’m going against the grain slightly here.

You say your contracted hours are until 5 pm, but you haven’t been working until 5pm.

It is not really your employers responsibility to take account of your commute, you knew where the office was when you took the job.
You imply that on home working days you do not send your child to nursery - as an employer there is an expectation that you will have childcare for those days.
It sounds like you didn’t have a formal flexible working request and that your employer and you have been working ‘differently’ to accommodate you rather than any formal arrangement.
I’d suggest you formally request this, but of course your employer doesn’t have to grant flexible working at all.

For those reasons alone you need to get another job and consider yourself lucky they have permitted this for as long as they have.

Oysterbabe · 05/08/2023 08:32

You can't use WFH in place of childcare. It's not fair on your employer or your poor ignored baby. It's actually in my contract that I can't be in charge of children while WFH. It's people taking the piss like you who are making employers stop allowing WFH.

Burnamer · 05/08/2023 08:34

Sugarfree23 · 05/08/2023 08:10

I'd look elsewhere.
But are you trying to look after a toddler while WFH? I suspect they are trying to put an end to that.

This. And if it is the case, they are being entirely reasonable.

LKM23 · 05/08/2023 08:36

Speak to ACAS, a flexible work request is a legal change to your terms, they are not allowed to change your hours without your consent and they can't change for the reasons they've stated, the fact others in the office don't work from home isn't a valid legal reason for changing your shifts.

Hufflepods · 05/08/2023 08:38

I had many discussions with them about the impact of this on me, and that it would cost me almost an extra £400 in childcare costs per month, to which I was told effectively that if I can't afford to have kids, I shouldn't have them.

I dont see how this is the case unless you were scrimping on nursery to begin with. Your employer is not being unreasonable to not want you working at home with a baby 2 full days a week.

greenteaandmarshmallows · 05/08/2023 08:39

Crochetablanket · 05/08/2023 08:30

I’m going against the grain slightly here.

You say your contracted hours are until 5 pm, but you haven’t been working until 5pm.

It is not really your employers responsibility to take account of your commute, you knew where the office was when you took the job.
You imply that on home working days you do not send your child to nursery - as an employer there is an expectation that you will have childcare for those days.
It sounds like you didn’t have a formal flexible working request and that your employer and you have been working ‘differently’ to accommodate you rather than any formal arrangement.
I’d suggest you formally request this, but of course your employer doesn’t have to grant flexible working at all.

For those reasons alone you need to get another job and consider yourself lucky they have permitted this for as long as they have.

I don't think thats against the grain at all.. its what a lot of us are saying. Was it formalised? If not then OP needs to formalise it or stick to the hours or leave

RidingMyBike · 05/08/2023 08:40

Were you WFH without childcare in place? That could well be the problem. You can't work effectively and look after a toddler at the same time.

Also, the leave early thing? If you're contracted to work until 5pm, then regularly leaving at 4.30pm means you're not available when you're contracted to be? As a manager I happily let staff leave early occasionally for a childcare emergency type situation but several times a week I'd have a conversation about adjusting working hours - I do have several members of staff who do 8am - 4pm or 8.30am - 4.30pm for this reason.

TreesandFish · 05/08/2023 08:41

Just find another job. 20 years ago, I had a baby and a 1.3 hour commute, each way. 5 days a week under extreme stress. I kept this job until the "baby" was 16 years old and once I changed, I regretted not having done it sooner. That commute and levels of stress screwed up my health, my marriage and I ended up spending very little time with my child. Not worth it.

Find another job and leave!

Misslizzie96 · 05/08/2023 08:43

It sounds like you might not have had childcare in place when you’re working from home and they’ve got wind of that, the two aren’t compatible except occasional emergencies.

SheRaaaaa · 05/08/2023 08:43

I'd look for something else and start working to rule regarding your work hours, no more of this 6 til 10 bollocks.

Crochetablanket · 05/08/2023 08:44

greenteaandmarshmallows · 05/08/2023 08:39

I don't think thats against the grain at all.. its what a lot of us are saying. Was it formalised? If not then OP needs to formalise it or stick to the hours or leave

Thanks @greenteaandmarshmallows - there were quite a few posters early on saying that the employer was unreasonable / being old fashioned / unfair dismissal etc that was why I was thinking I was slightly against the grain, but the thread moved on slightly as I was slowly typing my reply!

Beautiful3 · 05/08/2023 08:45

It's tricky because your job is a PA. You're supposed to be available for 2 people, during working hours and you're not. Could you either reduce your working hours to reflect your pay, but will no longer be available in the evenings and weekends. Or find another job, working remotely. I'm sorry this is happening to you. It was working so well for you too. Is it possible to talk to HR about options?