Parent/teacher swearing at pupils

[Passe]

Still a bit gobsmacked by tonight's events so just wanted some rational thoughts as to what I should do.

DD (15) has just come home from a party at a school friend's house. Large group of them, alcohol was available but parents were present.
DD isn't particularly closely to the group at school but was pleased to be xx

At one point a few of them disappeared and DD went to find them. They were all v drubk and smoking weed. One girl in particular was out of it and started vomiting. DD held back her hair and said they needed to get the girl back to her house (nearby).

Not sure of the details but basically they got the girl home and the mum answered the door.
She took one look at her DD and started screaming at all the friends
"Fuck off you fucking little Cs; how dare you let my DD get like this...why the fuck didn't you stop her... you little fucks!!... etc etc...."

This in itself isn't great, especially as this girl has form for getting obliterated, but the worst of it is that this woman is DD's teacher!!!
Several witnesses, including another parent have verified what was said and whilst of course I get she was shocked and worried, also that this happened out of school; I am utterly appalled by her language.

I did ask DD if the teacher realised it was her students she was ranting at and DD said absolutely.

I'm not sure what to do now. DD is about to go into year 11 and is worried about any fallout or amniosity. from this teacher. It is a private school with small class sizes so no hiding from this woman! Another parent is going to raise a formal complaint but I'm not sure whether I just tell DD to keep her head down and obviously steer clear of any more parties with this girl.

One positive is that it's shown my DD the dangers of getting paralytic, especially young girls. I hope

What was the point in having parents at the party if they were so ineffective? Were they too busy getting drunk or stoned themselves? How can there be parents there yet have no idea the kids are getting drunk?

Probably many people do swear a lot outside of work. Fine.

But it is never appropriate to swear and be aggressive to your pupils, regardless of where you are. Professional conduct doesn't just refer to the classroom.

I've been teaching for over nearly 30 years. In every school I've taught it this behaviour would be deemed inappropriate and unprofessional and would be subject to disciplinary action.

You hear worse language from kids. Get over yourself

Is the underage child a client/patient/customer/pupil of theirs?
If so, then yes - it would be the same situation.
If no, then it's a different situation and not really relevant.

If you think the school are going to do anything about a private party with drugs I think you are going to be sorely disappointed. School property or school trip maybe, it there was potential reputation damage. Private party no harm done nah not a sausage

You do bugger all about the teacher. You tell you daughter to have situational amnesia and behave as if nothing ever happened.

And yes the chances that your was the only child at the party not smoking weed is slim to nonexistent. This really should be your biggest concern coming out of this event

Welcome to private school.

The teacher herself has likely already recorded the details of the incident, reporting the parents who allowed this to happen and the children (including yours) who were involved, should the school need the information.

Her reactions in a traumatic situation are not particularly relevant to the bigger concerns of the wellbeing and supervision of teenagers using alcohol and drugs.

This could be bad for your DD too. If there are pictures circulating of teenagers doing drugs and your daughter is among them, even if she was just there and not partaking, she will still be in deep shit. If other teenagers say she was there, then she could also be in deep shit.

In your office example a school child is the same as a neatly filed report.
The boss is the head of school
The OP a client.

You could have run with junior member of staff and contact out of work on a non work issue.

But you switched the power balance dynamic to where the child would have control over the teacher.

No. You are inventing meanings in my post which weren't there and which were not remotely part of what I meant. I was merely giving one example of another situation in which it would not be ok for somebody to hurl offensive abuse at a person with whom they have a professional relationship. Why you would take that to mean that I was likening a school child to a neatly filed report, I cannot possibly fathom.

Unless you've been in that position personally you can't really judge .

Your 15 year old daughter had gone to a party supervised by parents and yet has been brought back in such a state BY OTHER KIDS (not adults). Who knows what else might have happened.

Their job at that moment in time was that of a mother. A certain concerned and angry mother.

I probably would have reacted the same way!

I don't often say this, because we're human and as such make mistakes, but the teacher code of conduct is very clear on this part: Teachers uphold public trust in the profession and maintain high standards of ethics and behaviour, within and outside school, by: • treating pupils with dignity, building relationships rooted in mutual respect, and at all times observing proper boundaries appropriate to a teacher’s professional position

So yes, she was acting unprofessionally and could face disciplinary action as a result of her language and demeanor.

The question is here, how much should she get in trouble for this, given the situation? I probably would have thought very similar throughts, but would have shown enough restraint to not express it there and then.

Agreed.

Op, you are going to have much, MUCH bigger problems on the horizon if your 15yo dd develops a weed habit.

I'm still utterly unconvinced your dd needed to be there in the first place as the other parent was taking the unwell girl home. Your dd may well have just been there for the drama, and if that came across, no wonder she got sworn at

Her choice of words were awful, but understandably she was upset and worried about her daughter. I wouldn't report to the school. She wasn't at work at the time. Could you call her to ask if daughter is OK and that you were a little shocked at her use of language when your daughter was actually helping her daughter get home safe?

The kids that were sworn at.

Mum with a job swears at kids who helped her child get obliterated.

Fixed it for you

I am astounded and appalled- I teach at a private school - would never EVER use language like this around students (or ever) in or out of school - definitely report to school - now - don't wait for September

bluechameleon
You're right about her breaking part 2 of the standards here. I do think the outburst isn't actually the most serious issue though.

As a member of staff and a parent she's walking the line between in and out of work. In this moment she was a concerned parent in a state, not a teacher.

I highly doubt the parents ready to jump to formally complaining about the swearing on grounds of unprofessional behaviour would be as keen on this mother reporting a large problem in her child's year group where a number of families see no issue providing 15 year olds with so much alcohol they get dangerously intoxicated, that the adults okay this level of childhood drunkenness, they have a drug problem in Year 10, and here are a list of names of all the children and parents.
The mother also should, in the name of professionalism, report safeguarding concerns regarding the parents who supervised this party as she allowed her 15 year old to attend their houses but when her child ended up in a dangerous situation, the parents who were were meant to be supervising either had no idea a child was in a dangerous situation, or they knew, did nothing and were happy to outsource the child's welfare and safety to other children who were drinking.

The parents in OP's situation can't have it both ways.

Tbh if I was the teacher's line manager and received the report that she had sworn at students because they turned up in the middle of the night with her daughter drunk/drugged off her face then I would definitely be speaking to the teacher so I could get a full list of the students involved so that we could investigate the matter fully - including potential sanctions for the students under any conduct policy.

Yes the teacher would be reprimanded but under the circumstances - being the middle of the school holidays; being in her own home and not on school property; not representing the school in any official capacity; the line being blurred between the teens being her students Vs her DDs friends (having been a teacher with a daughter who attended the school I worked at I know that it can be hard for children to differentiate "Miss Smith, the English teacher" from "Sarah, our BFFs Jane's mum" in different situations); it being the middle of the night; her daughter being brought home in a worrying state so she was purely acting as a parent and not as a teacher; possibly having a bunch of drunk teens acting inappropriately on her doorstep in the middle of the night (they may have brought her DD home but unless they were all stone cold sober I imagine that at least a couple will have been a bit tipsy so may have not seemed to be acting as seriously as the matter warranted and the parent took that out on them) - then I would be giving the teacher a warning to remember that students are still students outside of school times but that as long as there were no further issues stemming from the incident (eg her treating those students differently) it would be treated as a dealt with incident.

I would also be speaking to the students involved as I would be wanting to discuss the severity of their behaviour - drinking, taking drugs - and whether that violated the school's drug and alcohol policies. Potentially all of those teens could be receiving a suspension/exclusion depending on the school's policy, not just the teacher's child. I worked at a school once with a zero tolerance policy - if you were reported to the school for drinking underage and there was evidence then you were out, no exceptions - so if parents have reported the teacher I would assume they are prepared for the consequence of the school looking into their child's conduct too.

Hopefully the teacher reports the incident as a safeguarding concern herself.

I'm intrigued how you are not sure of the details but have already verified what was said.
If you are in the UK this was also in the early hours of the morning.

I teach in an international school which my daughter attends. It makes things complicated.

If you do go down the route of the drugs policy, then you risk your daughter being expelled as well.

Right. I'm a pastoral lead at my school.

I had a teacher swear at a student in school. The teacher in question said "Turn that the fuck off". The student was showing them a video making out that this member of staff was attracted to children. The teacher ended up off sick on stress and tried to quit. We managed to convince them to stay. The students involved no longer attend our school. The teacher was told the language was inappropriate, but contextually understandable and offered support after facing a horrific scenario in a young teacher's career.

In this case, I'd have a concern raised for every child involved, possibly directly notifying our social services liaison; consult with the member of staff in line with the above and request they apologise for their choice of language to the student concerned; and have an assembly on the dangers of peer pressure with drugs and alcohol. In particular, pointing out that sexual assaults are all too common for women in vulnerable positions like black out drunk.

You see, professional standards are there as guidance. Not the be all and end all or a mechanism to punish teachers when it suits uppity parents.

This⬆️

And this⬆️

I am amazed by the number of people defending the teacher.

Being a teacher isn’t like lots of other jobs, it doesn’t matter (or at least not a great deal) that she wasn’t at work. It’s not acceptable to call your pupils cunts regardless of how angry or worried you are!

I have worked in an independent school previously, although admittedly not as a teacher. If your daughter is being 100% truthful in her account of what happened, and I had been the adult involved, then I would consider myself lucky to not get fired for that as I would consider it to be gross misconduct.

I would prepare for the teens involved to be in trouble too.

@Passe
I need her to know though (as I would ANY adult in a such a position) that what she did was unacceptable
Oh do get off your high horse and leave the poor woman alone. Perhaps focus your energy on helping your daughter find a more acceptable group of friends and take your issues up with the parents of the party host who were basically allowing alcohol and drugs to be taken by children. Your priorities are very skewed.

Only if someone was petty enough to report you. But if you swore in the heat of the moment on your own doorstep, during the school summer holidays, after your underage DD had been deposited at your front door late in the evening semi-conscious through drink and drugs after being at a party where adults were supposed to be supervising, wouldn't you hope for a little latitude?